changer

[David Beckner]

I am changing out the fingers of an old miller style changer.I need fingers that will allow for more raise and lower that will fit a half inch shaft..Any one have any parts or a source of finding them?

[Bent]

David, you say "more raise and lower". That can mean two things: More holes in the R/L fingers to accommodate more pull rods.
Or it can mean improved pivots to enable longer travel, thus being able to lower two half tones instead of one (as an example)
When you say Miller style do you mean that this is a pull/release changer?
These factors have to be known in order to attempt to improve the changer.

[richard37066]

David -

Bent, as always, is on the money with his reply. Might I suggest that you perform one simple experiment in an effort to determine the limits on your changer?

In a stock-standard E9 tuning, the fourth string (E) is usually raised a whole tone - from E to F#. Place the pull-rod for that change as follows: - At the bellcrank end, put the rod in the hole FURTHEST from the crossrod. At the changer end, put the rod in the hole of the raise finger CLOSEST to the changer axle. This will give you the maximum travel available where the string crosses the finger. In adjusting the nylon tuner, you should be able to get AT LEAST a whole tone change in pitch. Note that this also is a condition where the most effort is needed in order to effect a change albeit with lesser pedal travel. It also makes the "1/2 A-pedal" change a little dicey. A compromise is usually in order but this is the worst case.

Bent didn't mention it so I'll blow his horn just a tad. He makes his own changers for the Ben-Rom guitars which he builds. Stay in touch with him and, soon enough, your problem will be solved.

Richard

[David Beckner]

Thanks guys
To clarify what I am dealing with , I have a changer taken from a Miller parts guitar.It is similar to a shobud fingertip or permanet style.There is one finger per string - it is long with 3 holes in it- no riveted parts. It sits on a half inch shaft.The guitar was 3 pedals and 2 knee levers. I am wanting to change this to a 4 pedal set up.I was told in order to do this would mean switching the changer fingers out and cutting a hole in the end plate to allow for nylon tuners- now it has nuts under the guitar - you have to crawl under to make adjustments..

I knew if anyone could help Bent would be the man.I highly respect his input.

[Bent]

Richard, thanks for the vote of confidence and for "blowing my horn".
David, likewise.
I have never seen a Miller changer. However, with the one long finger as you describe it, I believe this to be a pull/release changer (am I right guys??) whereby you pull the finger like an all-pull to get your raise. Then upon a lower you simply release the pull on the finger and a spring pulls it the other way. If I am correct in my assumptions then I cant understand. If you have 3 holes in a finger, that means you have a raise and or lower possibility of 3.
I hope Burt chimes in. He is more knowledgeable on this and knows more tricks than usual to make these changers work their best.

Personally, if I had that guitar I would look into the possibility of changing it over to an all-pull....a whole new changer. What you were told suggests exactly that.
It can get pricey. You're maybe better off getting hold of an old all-pull. Hard to give you any more tangible than this...sorry.

Added: David, please read this thread viewtopic.php?f=4&t=59 all 4 pages. Very educational and informative , lots of it by our pull/release guru Burt.

[David Beckner]

Burt's system shown on the last page is exactly like what I have . however I am minus the hooks and spring shown uner the hood. If I can get a clearer diagram as to what is going on there and can find resource of parts I believe I can make this set up work without a lot of major overhauling..

Bent, would you suggest going this route or should I change out the finger mechanism and mill the endplate and completely overhaul

Also where would I find an all pull changer for half inch shaft.

[Bent]

David, You definitely have a pull/release system then. If you have all the fingers with the possibility of raise and lower, then I would try to improve on it by adding the parts you feel you need. This will be cheapest for you. For a 3 pedal, 4 knee lever setup for E9th, your changer should be more than adequate. This is what I read anyway. Is your changer intact in the guitar now? If so, sit down and acquaint yourself with it...how it works on raises and lowers, what you need for parts to make it work with extra pedals/KL's. There might be Miller parts out there...advertise in Wanted on the SGF as you become familiar with what you need.
So I guess that is what I am suggesting.
Then again, if you have all the fingers and they are all moveable (with rod holes) what more do you need of specialized parts. None than I can think of... other than a pedal or 2 and knee lever assemblies.
Go to a hardware store to get the springs you need, go to a welding supply place to get pull rods (ie 3 foot lengths of stainless steel uncoated welding rod, likely 1/8" in diameter

But then you still wonder about the all pull. If so, then I suppose you can buy most any complete all pull mechanism. Just make sure that your cabinet is deep enough to accommodate the length of the 3 raise/3 lower or 3 raise/2 lower . As for making a window in the end plate I would suggest you mark out, drill one hole in each corner of the window and cut out the rectangle with a jigsaw...go slow. But I envision more difficulty and expense for you going that route than getting to know your pull/release and fixing it. By the way, I have heard on several fronts that the pull/release has killer tone!

[burt]

David,
Take a look at the first animation in this thread, it shows the principle of pull-release.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=508&start=0

You can see that only one rod is necessary for raises, and one for lowers, just like a Emmons push-pull.

If your Miller is similar to my Marlen, there are only a couple of underside tuners, which rarely need touching after the initial setup.

[David Beckner]

this is the set up as it is now

10432_fauxunder_1.jpg (50.57 KiB) Viewed 3994 times

[David Beckner]

10432_fauxbridge_1.jpg (45.71 KiB) Viewed 3994 times