Pull-Release Pull Rods

[Eldon]

I've really been scratching my head lately about my next build (a bit addicted now I guess). I'm really attracted to the pull release system.

It appears that "lower" is pushed rather than pulled with springs bringing the string back to tuned pitch. 3/16 - 1/8 pull rods work well for raises but I can see problems trying to push against the spring tension with a small diameter rod.

[mac639]

Hi Eldon...
Generally pull/release is just that.. For the raises the rods just pull, and for the lowers they just "release" the finger to go back to the finger stop screw, pulled backward (lowered) by the string tension. The return spring is attached to a lever on the crossbar and to the body. Overcoming the spring tension does not involve the pull rod at all. In fact the pull rod "pulls" the finger back to normal, helped by the spring wanting to return to normal.
FWIW.... it's funny but after all these years with the almighty "all/pull" "modern" guitars there seems lately to be a trend back to the more simple pull release. Wonder why that is? I've built several of each, all pull, pull/release, and double changer guitars. My favourite is still the pull/release. With the exception of not being able to do "splits", (which I'm workin' on) and the fact that raises predominate, which is like the hallowed Emmons push/pull, the pull release single piece finger gives the best tone and sustain of any system out there.
There..... That's my 2 cents
All the best,
Mac

[Farmer]

Eldon, About 1977 I worked at a steel guitar company in Fort Wayne Indiana. We made, at that time was called a push-pull, or pull-release. What I didn't like about it was when you raised and lowered the same string, such as the E string, on the raise you had to leave enough slack so it would lower to the correct pitch. I have seen where some said they can take that out, but I can't believe all the parts it would take to accomplish it. We used 1/8 rod with no trouble... Just a thought...Mike

[Eldon]

Mac,

I was originally going to put all my lower changers on the left side and raises on the right. It will be a basic C6 guitar with 6 pedals such as I have now or a 3/3 combination. Still may if I can get my head around it.

I've been looking for a diagram or a photo showing the lowering linkage train and I haven't been able to so after studying pics & sketches done by members of this forum & the SGF here's what I've come up with. next step would be to prototype in in wood.

I must be missing something...............................

small basic.jpg (27.67 KiB) Viewed 2965 times

[Pat Comeau]

My thought on a pull release changer is that you're limited in pulls and functions, it works fine for pulls that raise only or lower only but when it comes to raising and lowering the same strings that's another thing and also it takes longer to tune a pull release than an all pull, if i had to choose between the two...i'd choose the all pull for it's easy playability and tuning, as far as sustain and tone goes...that's a matter of taste in my opinion, i've heard some all pull PSG's that sounds better than any pull release out there, if someone would want to build a cheap guitar without breaking the bank then a pull release PSG is alot easyer and cheaper to build than an all pull, the only new pull release PSG that i know of being sold today are all student beginner models .

IMHO
Pat C.

[mac639]

Eldon... I've been trying to figure out your diagram but don't see the function too well. Anyway, I've atttached a diagram of the lowering mechanism I use on my double changer guitars. The right hand end is just a simple one piece finger used only for the raises, and the left hand end is like the diagram. I've built several guitars like this and they work well. The sustain is great by eliminating the roller nut altogether, they're easy to tune, stay in tune, and you can have tuneable splits on any string.

[mac639]

Pat... I don't have a problem with the all pull changers but we still read everyday nearly problems on the SGF. Pull a raise too much and it starts to lower. Pull a lower too much and it starts to raise. That's crap and is why folks are always tuning, adjusting, adjusting the springs etc. etc. to eliminate "returns sharp" "returns flat" and so on and on. Next thing you know the return springs are tired and you start all over again. That's why I like the pull/release and the double changer thingee. It's cheaper, more simple and reliable and does 90% of everything the average player needs.
The Stage One is a pull/release...can't imagine why he welds the bellcranks though and a couple of other odd things. But for $1000. you can't be too fussy I guess. Bob Simmons I think still makes pull/release guitars too.

[burt]

Eldon,
My Marlen pull-release is a lot simpler than your drawing, perhaps my sketch can help you.

[Dave-M]

Untitled-1.JPG (32.18 KiB) Viewed 2913 times

Hello, I am new here, and live in northern Ontario.

This is a simplified drawing of how I did a pull-release. As you know, raises have priority over lowers.

In the drawing I omitted the limit stop on the lowering pedal, and the raise stop is one I use for the levers. The lowering limit stop is usually a fraction beyond the lower tuning stop to allow for retuning.

I should have deleted hidden lines to make the functions clearer, and will repost the updated diagram if requested.

[mac639]

Hi Dave-M.....welcome!

Great drawing. Ain't this an amazing site. Lots of stuff to share & learn.

All the best,
Mac