Steel Project #4

[Bent]

Thanks Mike, yes, even with my cardboard ear, I seem to hear a more mellow, richer tone come out the speaker. I had PeeWee Charles play it the other day and his verdict was simply" I love the sound and tone in this guitar". PeeWee(Ed Ringwald) is the man who played steel for Gordon Lightfoot for 16 years. and before that, with Ian Tyson and Great Speckled Bird. So that sure gave me a booster!

Today, I spent all day with George, the man who gave me the mill. He set up the gibs on the table and now the mill is more accurate than before.
Then he showed me different milling operations - how to hollow out the inside of a keyhead for example. I learned more today than I did messing around on my own for 4 months.

[Georg]

Looking good ... and that it even sounds good certainly doesn't hurt

Great that you get experience on the mill ...as I will eventually need some parts to fix body-drop and tone in a couple of PSGs...

[Bent]

Here's the skeleton. The rails that hold the cross shafts are bolted to the end plates with two #10 screws in each end.

frame.jpg (177.96 KiB) Viewed 1487 times

[Storm Rosson]

Hey Bent ,that's exactly how I plan to resurrect the super pro build , complete 1/4" Al endo-skeleton..

[Georg]

Question: will the endoskeleton in the BenRom, and the "super pro", hold and stabilize the changer and keyhead?

[burt]

Georg,
If the skeleton is connected to the changer and headstock (which it probably isn't), there will be continuous changes in tuning as the ambient temperature fluctuates.

However, the 'stop' that the bottom of the changer fingers rest on will be attached to the endplate, and could give rise to slight tuning variations.

[Georg]

Burt,
That's what people keep telling me, again and again. Why haven't my (preferred) PSG behaved like that although it has been "aluminum all the way" for more than 18 years? It is still steady as a rock under varying temperature conditions.

Anyway, my original question relates to that what that aluminum skeleton is supposed to help against is "bodydrop", and those of my PSGs that are built with a frame more or less like shown for the BenRom has more bodydrop than I can accept - they are unplayable. That is of course not the aluminum frame's fault since the frame isn't supporting the changer and keyhead in those "droppers", it only supports the body and inner mechanics - like it seems to do on the BenRom.

[Bent]

Georg,
To answer some of your questions: The keyhead and changer will be partly supported by the aluminum framework.
Burt is correct in stating that with the changer bolted to the frame, is prone to temperature changes.

Georg, you must remember that your assumptions based on your guitars is only what applies to your comfort level when it comes to cab drop.
Most players, especially pros, learn to work around and tune cab drop out of their guitars. They find a drop of 2 to 3 cents, even more, to be acceptable.
A guitar built as a one-off to your level of confidence is hardly representative of the general market and you must keep this in mind when you assess other builds like mine for example. But we went all through this in my shop back in 2010.
Sure, I could build you a guitar like the one you brought. But who would build something like that if one was to find a happy medium between weight, tone, playability and ease of adjustment?

Your ideas are superb; they make sense in a general sense of the word. As I found the drop to be very minimal in your Dekley, the tone, while being fine, did not stand out as special, like the "blossoming effect" you speak of. The weight was unacceptably high and the underside was too tight and cluttered to work on.

Although I am a hobbyist, my aim is to develop a guitar as if I were to build it for a pro who was going to use it in the studio (for quietness, tone and record-ability) and traverse the globe on an airplane (weight).

As for tone, I am now starting to get some very positive feedback from top pros in the business. This assessment can be taken as a good general judgement of my guitars. In the end, this is what counts.

My changers are in a good, positive development. I am using a little detail that serves to lessen drag and friction by quite a bit and I dare say that this design will compare favourably to your knife edge design as far as friction goes.

As for cab drop,tone and all our other concerns - well time will tell

[Storm Rosson]

My old BMI has an integral Al frame ,in fact it is just a frame with a board top and a neck screwed to it with the changer ,and it is the most stable guitar I've had tuning wise...seems Bent and I must read the same comic books cause our ideas seem to intermingle....if you will, along the path.....thx for the inspiration Bent ol friend....Stormy

[Georg]

Georg,
To answer some of your questions: The keyhead and changer will be partly supported by the aluminum framework.

Thank you. Once you have finished it I'd like to see pictures of how the "partly supported" is achieved.

Georg, you must remember that your assumptions based on your guitars is only what applies to your comfort level when it comes to cab drop.

No assumptions baked into my original question. I only wanted to know how the various elements of your construction are supposed to "play" together to reach your end goals. That I have different goals is not the point here.