Changer Shaft

[richard37066]

Georg -

I think that the method of mounting the changer assembly and the keyhead has been mentioned before but I applaud you for bringing it to light once again. It's been generally overlooked in favor of the entire body flexing under stress (my cheapy test). Distributing the load out over a much greater area makes all of the sense in the world. Unless, of course, one chooses to mount these things to a rigid frame-like structure while leaving the cabinet out of the equation. Sound familiar?

So many things to consider - so little time.

Richard

[sheffield steel]

Hi Georg,
10x M5 & 2x M6 st/st bolts through the body.

Are we chasing the Holy Grail here? because like I said earlier in this thread, that I only get 1 or 2 cents deflection on strings 5 & 6, I've tried every trick in the book to eliminate the last 1 or 2 cents but it still remains. I think this amount is so small compared to some steels that have detune well into double figures, so I think that I will settle for this small ammount.

Dave.

[Georg]

Hi Georg,
10x M5 & 2x M6 st/st bolts through the body.

...and the parts under the top-plate spread the load over a large enough surface to forget about compression in the wood? I guess so but I'm asking anyway to be sure

Are we chasing the Holy Grail here?

Naa, no problem getting zero "body-drop" in PSGs by applying active counter-forces, so that chase is over as far as I'm concerned.
I am interested in how to get the low (1 - 2 cent) detuning you have in yours in all conventionally built PSGs - with no active counter-measures, simply by choosing and shaping the parts right and mounting them properly.

I have heard so many say their PSGs have insignificant/inaudible detuning - below 2 cents - when pedaling. Yet, when I sit down to play those PSGs I almost immediately notice pretty audible and often right-out disturbing detuning. Either those PSGs vary a lot from day to day, the owner "pretty-up" the detuning issue a little, or I hear or focus on something not all that many others do. Probably a little of all in most cases, but whatever, I like to sort things out.

[Pat Comeau]

It's a sum of all parts...PSG design itself, Loyd Green and those ol' pro's had guitar that had alot of cabinet drop in the old days and they sounded great and not out of tune , if you know how to tune and play the thing...even a 10 percent drop won't be noticable.

it's all in the hands and talent IMOH:) .

Pat C

[sheffield steel]

AMEN PAT, AMEN

Dave.

[sheffield steel]

Hi Georg,

There's no counter force mechanics or add on's on my steel and as "Scotty" used to say on Star Trek "Its the law of physics Jim", A good solid build and DON't cut down on the thickness of the wood and/or stiffening ribs (top deck & side rails) and if the guitar is a little heavier, so what, so long as it stays & plays in tune.

Dave.

[Georg]

Dave,

Your recipe is as good as any when it comes to keeping "body-drop" low in regular PSGs. Weight only becomes a problem when carrying the PSG at old age

I don't need thick wood or stiffening ribs in mine, since the neck carries all load...
http://www.gunlaug.no/msc/smc-090617.html
...but I only built the parts that take up string-tension on my old PSG, and am quite satisfied with 1.3 cent on lower E-string as max detuning on any string no matter which or how many pedals/levers I push. The top-plate and frame just happens to be there - as produced by the Dekley company once upon a time, and especially the frame doesn't contribute much to anything but weight and bottom-sound these days

As for what Lloyd Green and others manage(d) to get out of some PSG: to me that's completely beside the point to serious PSG-builders. I don't find it particularly difficult to play my MSA and GFI in tune, but I do find it irritating that I have to correct for up to and even above 10 cents "body-drop" while playing so I rather not play those "droppers" at all. Should not be more than 2 cents "body-drop" detuning in a PSG IMO, thus no need to compensate for "body-drop" while playing.


As I am designing a new PSG variant that definitely won't contain much wood, and where the body-frame and legs basically will only hold pedals/levers at the right positions/height, everything about regular PSG builds is interesting. I attempt to design for optimal sound (according to my preferences) and near-zero "body-drop", and full control of all other mechanical variables in a medium-weight construction.

But, maybe I shouldn't mention my design in a thread about changer shaft, as mine won't have such a shaft ... sorry
OTOH, the 5 PSGs I have ATM all have changer shafts, and only one of those shafts (on the MSA) is too weak for comfort, so...