Changer Finger Design
Re: Changer Finger Design
Hello na4it the web address you supplied is the correct site for emachine.com there are the boxes on the right, the one that says download the latest version now is the one you want to click on to start your download to draw your parts out on. Steve B.
Re: Changer Finger Design
These are some pics of my changer. Pretty much done except for final minor adjustments and polishing. I made everything but the pickup mounting block. Found that from an old MSA with a SuperSustain II pickup for less than I could buy the aluminum so I decided to cut a corner. Not likely to use the pickup but will give me something to play with. As always, any comments are appreciated.
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Zum StageOne, Peavey Session 400, Fender Tele, CyberDeluxe,
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Rick Dillon
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:01 am
Re: Changer Finger Design
Hello dgalloway, Lookin good. They look like you have done this several times before, I really like the roller bearing on the lowering finger. You probably are playing the guitar by now. By the way I am new the forum and getting ready to start building a new changer for my sho bud, there completely worn out after 30 years of playing and oiling it, yea pop metal. Hope you don,t mind if I steal your design. Thanks Rick
Re: Changer Finger Design
Rick
Thanks for the kind words. I haven't started playing it yet, and haven't put strings on yet. Just finishing up the body and getting to start putting the underside together or should I say create the underside. This is my first build and am hoping it will function somewhere in the neighborhood of a "real" pedal steel:)
Before you get too far into using some of my design, (which hasn't been tested) you might want to check with Bent, Ross, Sheffield and the many other fine builders on the forum for their opinion. They are VERY experienced and have been more than helpful with questions and suggestions and got me going in the right direction.
Good luck with the project!
Dave G
Thanks for the kind words. I haven't started playing it yet, and haven't put strings on yet. Just finishing up the body and getting to start putting the underside together or should I say create the underside. This is my first build and am hoping it will function somewhere in the neighborhood of a "real" pedal steel:)
Before you get too far into using some of my design, (which hasn't been tested) you might want to check with Bent, Ross, Sheffield and the many other fine builders on the forum for their opinion. They are VERY experienced and have been more than helpful with questions and suggestions and got me going in the right direction.
Good luck with the project!
Dave G
Zum StageOne, Peavey Session 400, Fender Tele, CyberDeluxe,
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Rick Dillon
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:01 am
Re: Changer Finger Design
I looked at maxi19 space age changer, and would love to have the capability of building his design, you probably know what I am talking about. Your style is closer for me to build than his, and would love to buy a changer from him. But yours I believe I can do and will work just find, and smoother with the roller you put on, just got to be able to find them that size. I would make a comb style stop for your design to prevent the fingers from hanging up on one another, which I had to install on my sho bud, works great, solved the problem. The finger assy., you built is real close to what I have now (factory sho bud) one,except for the roller, which like I said will make a huge difference in smoothness on lowering the strings. Going to give them a whirl, hope you get yours done before I do, so you can tell me what to tweak, ha ha. thanks a million. Rick
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Ross Shafer
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:52 am
Re: Changer Finger Design
You flatter me (undeservedly so) by including me in a list with Bent and Dave (Sheffield) as I've yet to build any steels of my own. That said, I am finally getting close to making some serious chips.....so many projects...so little time!
I've been testing my changer design iterations for well over a year, as well as a few different keyless tuner designs. My first changer design was breaking that pesky .011 3rd string pretty quickly (hint, think carefully about using a roller bridge in front of the changer with a standard or longer scale length...I think there's a good reason the Fender PS210 had a 22.5" scale)
I ended up building a simple cyclic testing machine to test my changer and now the thing seems as though it will not break strings. My record is 1,028,000 pulls on a .011 G#-A raise over a 25" scale (the string didn't break, I just figured enough was enough and turned the damn thing off)....that's about 7.5 days of my machine running 24 hours at 96 changes per minute. Takes me back to my handlebar and stem testing days before escaping the world of bicycle manufacturing.
I've been testing my changer design iterations for well over a year, as well as a few different keyless tuner designs. My first changer design was breaking that pesky .011 3rd string pretty quickly (hint, think carefully about using a roller bridge in front of the changer with a standard or longer scale length...I think there's a good reason the Fender PS210 had a 22.5" scale)
I ended up building a simple cyclic testing machine to test my changer and now the thing seems as though it will not break strings. My record is 1,028,000 pulls on a .011 G#-A raise over a 25" scale (the string didn't break, I just figured enough was enough and turned the damn thing off)....that's about 7.5 days of my machine running 24 hours at 96 changes per minute. Takes me back to my handlebar and stem testing days before escaping the world of bicycle manufacturing.
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Storm Rosson
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:55 am
- Location: Silver City, NM
Re: Changer Finger Design
Yeah I like the look and engineering of Maxi's changer but I'm wondering if it will have enuff throw to do some of the longer pulls and lowers used in some newer copedents I've seen ,sometimes a full 2 steps,is required. Guess we'll find out when he gets no. 2 up and running...Stormy 
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Rick Dillon
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:01 am
Re: Changer Finger Design
Dave, keep on pluggin away you will win, remember, what one man can do, so can another.Rick
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richard37066
- Posts: 517
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:44 am
- Location: Gallatin, Tennessee, USA
Re: Changer Finger Design
Ross Shafer -
Before the fire destroyed my home this past June, I had copious printouts of technical papers on a variety of subjects. One such paper investigated the effect of terminating a vibrating string on a rounded object as opposed to a "knife-edge" configuration as regards the decay time (sustain) of the string. It was found that the larger the diameter of the "stop" the shorter the decay time. Intuition would tell us that this is true, but the experiment verified it.
Common sense dictates that a string which is "stopped" on two well-defined points would vibrate longer than on any other lesser-defined configuration. It would appear that there is an optimum diameter which allows for adequate sustain (whatever THAT is) without inducing undue stresses to the metallurgy of the string material while under repetitive bending thus leading to breakage at some point.
The "egghead" in me would love to investigate this but, at the present time, I have neither the time or the resources to devote to it. Gotta rebuild a house!
Perhaps you could crank up your magic machine with different diameters on the changer and see what happens.
I would like to think that Gene Fields knew - or felt - that a smaller diameter roller would enhance the sustain of the string - hence the small diameter roller bridge on the PS210. An obvious consideration is the angle at which the string leaves the roller behind the "speaking length" of the string. A sharp angle would increase the pressure of the string over the roller but also increase the length of the string being alternately bent and straightened.
Fatigue, at some point, will set in and "pop" goes the string. Hopefully not in the middle of your extended solo.
In any case, the question of how much "sustain" is enough will prompt a hundred different answers.
Life ain't nuthin' but a bunch of contradictions and compromises.
Richard
Before the fire destroyed my home this past June, I had copious printouts of technical papers on a variety of subjects. One such paper investigated the effect of terminating a vibrating string on a rounded object as opposed to a "knife-edge" configuration as regards the decay time (sustain) of the string. It was found that the larger the diameter of the "stop" the shorter the decay time. Intuition would tell us that this is true, but the experiment verified it.
Common sense dictates that a string which is "stopped" on two well-defined points would vibrate longer than on any other lesser-defined configuration. It would appear that there is an optimum diameter which allows for adequate sustain (whatever THAT is) without inducing undue stresses to the metallurgy of the string material while under repetitive bending thus leading to breakage at some point.
The "egghead" in me would love to investigate this but, at the present time, I have neither the time or the resources to devote to it. Gotta rebuild a house!
Perhaps you could crank up your magic machine with different diameters on the changer and see what happens.
I would like to think that Gene Fields knew - or felt - that a smaller diameter roller would enhance the sustain of the string - hence the small diameter roller bridge on the PS210. An obvious consideration is the angle at which the string leaves the roller behind the "speaking length" of the string. A sharp angle would increase the pressure of the string over the roller but also increase the length of the string being alternately bent and straightened.
Fatigue, at some point, will set in and "pop" goes the string. Hopefully not in the middle of your extended solo.
In any case, the question of how much "sustain" is enough will prompt a hundred different answers.
Life ain't nuthin' but a bunch of contradictions and compromises.
Richard
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Ross Shafer
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:52 am
Re: Changer Finger Design
Richard,
I'd love to see that tech. paper you refer to, if you ever remember where you found it originally. I did try a few different roller diameters with my roller bridge equipped changer design. I also changed the scale length...the shorter the scale length the longer the string lasted due to the lesser tension. Hence my comment about the PS210's short scale. The size didn't affect the breaking of the string much if at all at scale at "normal" scale lengths. At "normal' scale lengths an .011" string tuned to G# is running pretty close to the limits of its mechanical properties which is why breakage is so common.
I'd love to see that tech. paper you refer to, if you ever remember where you found it originally. I did try a few different roller diameters with my roller bridge equipped changer design. I also changed the scale length...the shorter the scale length the longer the string lasted due to the lesser tension. Hence my comment about the PS210's short scale. The size didn't affect the breaking of the string much if at all at scale at "normal" scale lengths. At "normal' scale lengths an .011" string tuned to G# is running pretty close to the limits of its mechanical properties which is why breakage is so common.