knee lever question!!

[louckswayne]

Guys
I am making a lay-out for the cross rods and underside parts on my guitar.
I am wondering what is considered a good/common space between knee
levers? I dont have a guitar to relate to so am down to pics. and asking
questions! Would be greatfull for help with this!
Thanks
Wayne

[Bent]

Wayne, you basically have to go by the distances between shaft holes and consideringthe width of your knees, plus your own comfort level as to where you want to have your knees in relation to the levers. It's not that hard really. The most imorta<nt things is where to place any given lever in relation to the pedal being operated in conjunction with it, IE, I like lever to move same way as my left foot when doing the A and F change(left lever moving left in conjunction withthe left footrollingto the left to get the A pedal).
Maybe this gets too confusing...rememberthat your pedal distance dictates where you put the holes in the rail. Then you have to place your pedals accordingly. Then you have to place your levers in the remaining shafts\holes. No rocket science really..more common sense...

[louckswayne]

Bent
I understand! I am quite tall and have thin legs so dont need the levers too
wide apart. I will take into consideration the the points you have mentioned
here and thanks very much for your insite into this!
Wayne

[richard37066]

Wayne -

To add to Bent's excellent reply, I'll give you a couple of hard numbers and a reminder.

The pedal spacing on my GFI D10 is 2½" between pedals. The knee lever cross shafts are midway between, or 1¼" from the nearest pedal cross shaft. In order to accomodate your "skinny" knees, your lever cross shafts can then be multiples of 2½". The only sane distance is, therefore, 5" between the lever cross shafts. The reminder: - the adjusting stop screws on the knee lever(s) will afford you the ability to narrow or widen that gap by a smidgen. If you can "bias" the mounting lever at a small angle then the adjusting/stop screw will make it possible to position the actual lever portion in a vertical position.

On the other hand, some of my levers are actually mounted via a bracket to the top of the instrument. This allows one to "fudge" the distance between levers and without regards cross shaft locations. Further, the brackets are built in an "arch" configuration such that they can straddle a pedal cross shaft should that be necessary. This runs counter to my belief that everything should be mounted to cross shafts. My "build", so far, is just on paper but I can tell you that the side rails will have an array of evenly spaced holes into which the cross shafts will be mounted - pedal or lever. Fine tuning of the distance between levers can be accomplished elsewhere.

In my own mind, I cannot imagine screwing something together and having everything coming out "on the money" - to SUIT ME and my stubby legs. Minor adjustments will, most likely, be necessary and those adjustments are being incorporated into the master plan.

I'm not naive - or arrogant - enough to believe that I've solved your dilemma - just trying to provide some food for further thought. I hope that I've succeeded in that effort.

Richard

[louckswayne]

Hi Richard
Yes, you make some good points! For most builders that build guitars to sell
i guess they try to find a one size fits all space between knee levers. Then we
can fine tune the levers by tilting them in or out. What i am really trying to
determine is what is that common lever spacing! On a Rains it might be 7", on
a Carter it might be 71/2". Unless i play those guitars i cant really say that
the spacing is good for me! In the past i have had guitars with the A pedal
too much to the left and had to put my foot over to play. Some builders use
KL reverse brackets that are short or close together ( say 2 1/2" between cross rods)
and another will have them at 4" apart. When ever i am unsure about something
i just revert to common sense. 9 out of 10 times it works out ok!
Thanks for your input!
Wayne

[richard37066]

Wayne -

We've got a small can o' worms that we're trying to get sorted out but I have a suggestion or two.

First - do you know ANYONE relatively close by who has a steel that you might sit behind for about 5 minutes? If so, then I would suggest that you sit comfortably behind the instrument and take note of a couple of things. Your legs are, basically, a straight line. Can you place that "straight line" from your hip socket thru the levers and onto the appropriate pedals without straining or trying to put a curve in your femur? Both legs, both sides. If you can, then the levers are in a good position. If not, then the levers should be moved to accomodate the comfortable position of your leg. Remember, you're setting this thing up to FIT YOU and not me. As for me, my levers measure approximately 4½ inches inside. My leg is such that I have a smidgen over ½" of space on each side. Why so narrow? Well, you've seen steel players slam their legs from side to side all over the south fourty in order to activate a change. NOT! As far as I am concerned, the closer they are to your leg, the easier and faster they can be used. Why waste energy and time if you don't have to?

Another suggestion is approximate - VERY approximate. My GFI D10 has 8 pedals. The distance from the center of the "A" pedal to the center of the volume pedal is about 22". You could place a couple of pieces of masking tape on the floor that distance apart and then position a chair midway between them. Place the toes of your feet on the pieces of tape. Then, at a point about ¼ the distance from your kneecap to your hip socket, measure the distance between the centers of your upper legs. This might provide a ballpark figure with which to work. Even better is the notion that you already know the dimensions of your cabinet. You will know where the "A" pedal and volume pedal are located. Repeat the above and you'll be closer.

The absolute best way is the one first mentioned. If you were to sit at a living steel - with the levers in the "up" position, then you could make a measurement between your legs at the approximate point where they would hit the levers.

Once again, I hope that this helps just a little.

Richard

[louckswayne]

Richard
Yes, your reply helps alot! I fully agree, if you sit at the guitar to play and the
levers are 2" away from your leg on each side we would be creating alot of
uneeded work and motion! The guitar will not be pleasant to play. personally
i like the levers only about say 1/4" from my leg on each side! That would be
about 5 1/2" space in my case. I will do like you suggest in your post and
zero in on that number! Thanks very much for your insite!
Wayne

[Dave-M]

Note: I am not a professional musician, but I have built a couple of home-brew PSGs.

Some prefer their nose aligned with fret-15, but I prefer fret-12. Figure out where your preferred fret is with respect to the guitar body.

One important consideration is that RKR not encroach on the finger-mount area. This may affect the preferred nose-fret relationship. Draw everything full-sized on paper. Tape sheets together if required.

I'm 5'-9" and my legs are probably medium size. I set the knee width at 5" with about 8" between LKR and RKL after adjustment screws are set.

My pedals are 3" apart so crossbars are multiples of 1.5". Crossrod mounting between LKR and RKL is 7.5" and knee width would be 6" before adjustment. This arrangement is centered about the preferred nose-fret.

A-pedal and F-lever (LKL [1#]) are pushed frequently; B-pedal and E-lever (LKR [7]) are pushed frequently. Line up your A and B pedals as best you can to facilitate this on available cross rods, or else custom-space the pedal crossrods to other than 1.5" with relation to the lever crossrods.