Project: keyhead changer on knife-edges

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Bent
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Re: Project: keyhead changer on knife-edges

Post by Bent »

Georg, I hope that you soon will be able to acquire a quality drawing program. For me, that last picture is not at all clear like you are alluding to and I am not afraid to admit my ignorance.
The funny inkblot-looking thing is supposed to look like the raise and lower plates from the end I think, but that's where it stops for me.
But carry on - I am sure you know what you are doing and you will succeed in the end. I think I'll go back to milling out my conventional, boring end plate :lol:
http://benrom.com/
21 BenRom pedal steel guitars, a Nash 112 and a 1967 TOS Milling machine with many cutters making one hell of a mess on the floor.
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Georg
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Re: Project: keyhead changer on knife-edges

Post by Georg »

Bent, no problemo ... I will produce exact drawings and templates before beginning to make actual parts.

In the mean time, the sketch shows thin aluminum plate shaped for changer scissors. Not in exact 1/1 scale yet, but close.

1: cut out all white (keep all gray), fold 90 degrees along both dark-gray edges down the center, and put raise inside lower.
Source of inspiration: changer on Excel PSG.

2: insert and glue in place red steel parts from previous post. That completes the changer scissors.
Source of inspiration:
Image
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Georg
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Re: Project: keyhead changer on knife-edges

Post by Georg »

This...
Image
...obviously has short enough action for low-octave strings. Didn't think I would have that luxury-problem.

Scissors pretty much ready, but I must tweak the (red) steel inserts forming the knife edge / seats. Inserts at the bottom must also be given more free-play.
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Georg
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Re: Project: keyhead changer on knife-edges

Post by Georg »

Think I will land on this solution...
Image
...with a stepped "gear" for balancing action to octave strings.

- By swapping the steel insert on lower - red part marked "1" - with one with the knife edge lining up with a higher seat on raise, the action will be reduced to around 75% or 50% for both raise and lower on the changer scissors for a particular string.
richard37066
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Re: Project: keyhead changer on knife-edges

Post by richard37066 »

Georg -

I've gone over every post in this thread in an effort to keep most design ideas in my head. The following is not critical at all, but a suggestion as to how to make any PSG a little more "playable". It's not everyone's "dish of tea", so to speak, so disregard it at will if it puts a sour taste in your mouth.

As you well know, I am relatively new to the playing of the PSG. When I first sat down at my guitar some four years ago I developed an instant dislike for the typical vertical knee lever. It just seemed super awkward - especially in combination with a pedal - and I had devil's own time trying to acclimate myself to the motion.

I was studying with Buck Reid at the time and, during one of our sessions, I paid particular attention to his use of the LKV in a tune under investigation. Lo, and behold, there was no vertical movement of his knee at the required time and place! Whoa, Nellie! I stuck my head under his JCH and made a discovery which was to change my attitude about playing. In place of the typical vertical knee lever, he had mounted ANOTHER LKL some 3" into the guitar and approximately 1/2 to 1" to the right. In playing position, one's kneecap just brushed the additional knee lever. It only required a small movement into the guitar in order to catch this new lever with your kneecap. When I went home, I immediately transformed the LKV mechanics into the additional LKL. In the interim, I've discovered that many others have these "added" levers in order to achieve a given copedant.

Is this something which you might be able to use with regards your "gear shifting" mechanism or, for that matter, in any other place on the instrument? As I've stated, it is not something which everyone might favor but it has made life a heckuva lot easier for me. There's that "personal preference" thing again.

Another idea tossed into the air - where it drops, no one knows!

Richard
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Georg
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Re: Project: keyhead changer on knife-edges

Post by Georg »

Richard,

I buy that idea ... for my left knee. Right knee movement is somewhat restricted by the VP, so won't work so well there.

Back in -88 when I installed the vertical "stop-switcher" for LKL/LKR, I tested out both an LKL2 and an LKF (lever going forward). Both worked fine, but my S10 doesn't have much free space underneath so I had problems mounting such levers properly. Just getting the LKV in as I wanted - very long lever for vertical movement, was pretty problematic.

On my project PSG I can prepare for LKL/LKL2, LKR/LKR2, LKV/LKV2 and LKF - that's 7 left knee levers all told, and leave out those that won't work in real life. Apart from for the LKF's 90 degree mount, all I have to do is to drill out holes for axle bushings and screws for lever redirection reversal mechanics, etc.
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Re: Project: keyhead changer on knife-edges

Post by richard37066 »

Georg -

All Right!

I've seen the LKL, LKL2, LKR, LKR2 configuration on a couple of copedants used by monster players. I've also seen an additional lever for the right knee although I must agree with you that it is cumbersome when used in conjunction with the VP. I must admit to entertaining the idea of an additional lever on the right knee but my low profile Hilton pedal moves like greased owl-crap! There's little or no resistance to the movement of the pedal. I sent an email to Keith Hilton asking for a recommendation as to how to provide some resistance to the pedal but recieved a noncommittal reply. Haven't investigated a means of doing it myself since my head is into the mechanicals of the instrument, itself. It's definitely on my "to-do" list even if it means going to a different pedal. In this instance, "no resistance" is too much of a good thing. I may have to revisit this whole right knee thing in order to gain a tad more flexibility in the tuning. We shall see.

As an aside - do you know of anyone who has investigated/used an organ foot-pedal console arrangement for the pedals? It's' analogous to the black/white keys of the organ/piano keyboard. Seems as if it would be more expeditious than swinging one's foot all over the south fourty in order to make a change.

Richard
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Georg
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Re: Project: keyhead changer on knife-edges

Post by Georg »

Richard,

When it comes to VP I prefer "cheap, durable but easy replaceable, low-Z" ones, as I always use a buffer amp in form of a BOSS LMB-3.
VPs like the BOSS shown here...
Image
...are easy enough to tailor for mechanical and electronic action suitable for PSGs, IMO. And, with the LMB-3 in the chain I hardly move the VP except for end-sustaining very long-held notes anyway.

Haven't seen anything but regular pedal arrangements for PSGs - like above, but should be easy enough to put a complete set of "organ pedals" on one. The foot-pedals on my electronic organ sure would work fine with balanced depress-force, and will allow for more, and more ergonomic, pedals in the available space.
Eldon
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Re: Project: keyhead changer on knife-edges

Post by Eldon »

I've been following this thrtead since it started. I'm amazed, baffled kaffuffled and totaly in awe about the idea and the posts that have come across. For a "bush guy like me" it's great to be able to visualize a different concept. The learning never ends. Right on guys! Keep at it. Hope to hear this one-off someday.
Music is what feelings sound like!

Eldon
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Re: Project: keyhead changer on knife-edges

Post by Eldon »

Georg. On your post of Tues Nov 3rd you show a green piece that appears like a "T"-bar. I'm assuming that this part of a floating fretboard. Perhaps I've missed something but where does it attach in your scheme of things.
Music is what feelings sound like!

Eldon
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