Wood body thickness?

[Don McGregor]

I'm building a couple of double neck consoles using pedal steel end plates, and wonder what the usual thickness of the basic body parts of a pedal steel are. I've got some Hard Maple, but will likely be using figured Soft Maple on at least one of them. They will have wooden necks. One will be a double 10, and the other a double 8.
Also, apron dimensions?
Thanks.

[bluesteel]

Don,

Sorry to see there's been no reply so far. Par for the course seems to be 19mm for top and aprons, although maybe the top would "speak" better if a little thinner. So many other factors at work there, like what the neck is made of and whether it is fixed to the top or not.

I'm working with 19mm, maple top and black walnut aprons front and rear.

Will

[richard37066]

Don -

Just now saw this.

For the record only since no one has done meaningful research on the effect of top thickness on tone or "sustain".

I'm in the final stages of rebuilding an old Dekley D12, circa 1974 or so. It will end up being an SD12 with the back neck area having a pad, only.

The instrument top and neck is made of "pakkawood". This is select hardwood veneers impregnated with an exotic phenolic thermosetting resin under heat and pressure. The end product is fairly uniform in color throughout the material and HARD AS A ROCK and dimensionally stable. By actual measurement, the top is 0.4" (approximately 10 mm) thick. This is one heck of a lot of surface area for such a thin top. The neck is 3/4" thick. Perimeter strength is achieved through 1/4" aluminum extrusions with cast aluminum end plates.

I strung it up prior to building the undercarriage. Just strumming the strings and plucking certain strings as I installed the bellcranks and pullrods tells me that this thing sings forever! The "sustain" is all that I could have hoped for. The tone is superior - according to my preferences. Still a long, long way to go, however.

As I said, this is for the record only and may give you an alternative for your current or future build.

Richard

[bluesteel]

That sounds right from an engineering PoV too, Richard - most of the "beam strength" - its resistance to bending and therefore cabinet drop - come from the front and rear aprons. The front in particular, since this is where the bending forces are fed in from the pedal pull-rods. The modern practice of having an alloy bearing plate or extrusion along the inside of the front apron makes a big contribution to the beam strength of the guitar.

Acoustic guitars get their strength from the body sides. The top or "sound table" is really thin, and on really good guitars is thinned even further on the treble side so the higher notes come out clearer and sustain longer. So 10mm of "pakkawood" doesn't sound like it would be too thin. My old Marlen had a top of 19mm maple, but it was hollowed out from underneath, only 19mm thick at the edges. It had a pretty good top end.

Will Cowell

[Georg]

Dekley is an exception in that it has a soundboard in a frame. The soundboard is not attached tightly to the front, back and end profiles, so it can vibrate more freely - as a soundboard should IMO.

The soundboard on my Dekley S10 "slimline" is thinner along the edges than in the middle, and the slots in the side/end profiles are cut out in the changer area so the soundboard can vibrate pretty unrestricted at that end. Can't check my Dekley D10 "slimline" right now - it is on the other side of the pond.

[richard37066]

Georg is oh, so, right. I should have mentioned the "floating" top.

Maybe there is something to be said for a "soundboard" concept as opposed to a thick slab of hardwood. Anyone up to experimenting with this idea?

My rebuild is going at a snail's pace, but the early indication is that the end product will be an exceptional instrument. I have high hopes that I'll be thoroughly satisfied with both tone and "sustain".

We shall see.

Richard

[Bent]

It is largely a matter of what suits our ears, what suits our concept of sound and vibration transfers. When the end result is good to our ears and the ears of highly experienced musicians then we will tend to adhere to the building concepts that made our product sound good. This is not to say that it should hit everybody's ear the same way.
What I hit upon, be it by luck or design, works for me and my ears and those of several professionals. So then, why should I mess with a good thing?
My building concept consists of the deck(sound board?), with the E9th part being 3/4" thick, the C6th part 1/2" thick the deck is then screwed and bolted to the endplate ledges in both ends, with the changer and keyhead bolted to the same end plate extension at one end and thru the deck wood in the other end. The end plates are then screwed to aluminum side rails, so in fact the deck, endplates side rails and legs all contribute to the vibrations and sound transfers.

I have been thinking about using angle aluminum side rails for when I go to make a double neck, so that I can screw the full length of the deck to the angle in order to beef up the strength of the 1/2" C6th deck plate.

[Georg]

Richard, I don't think PSGs with "soundboard" will get much traction over traditional builds. I have played one new-built PSG with true "soundboard" in later years, and although I would choose it over all traditional builds because of its much wider sound-range and responsiveness to changes in playing style, most players, and therefore also builders, seem to prefer PSGs with a more static, traditional, sound and feel.

[Don McGregor]

Thank you all.
I've finally gotten back onto this project, and appreciate your feedback. I'm new at this, and I think I tend to over build.
What I've come up with at present is 3/4" (19mm) decks and rails, with the necks just a little thicker, at 13/16". These decks are of African Mahogany, which hasn't nearly the strength of Hard Maple, so I'm erring on the side of strength. Also, keep in mind, I am building a non pedal double 8 console, so I do not have to worry about cabinet drop from pedal pulls.
Thanks again,
Don

D8 Mahogany & Lacewood 8951_edited-1.jpg (376.81 KiB) Viewed 3045 times

[maxi19]

That's certainly taking shape well, beautiful figuring in the wood, it will look fantastic when lacquered or varnished.

Regards Ron Mc