Scott Howard _Keyless Tuner

[Bent]

Thanks Scott, for a krash kourse in keyless
It looks intriguing indeed...less wood or mica to deal with = less weight
I think I have heard mention a difference in tone. What is your lowdown on that?

You have a great comparison to make with your re-worked Emmons PP...did you honestly hear any difference in tone there?

You have to be quite the expert to actually do a PP over like that. Kudos to you!

[Scott Howard]

I can't say that I remember any change in sound or tone. There may have been a slight difference but it was so long ago I don't remember . I thought the Emmons sounded good both ways and but I am not the best player anyway. I feel the player has more to do with tone than the guitar. Don't misunderstand me on this point. The guitar does matter but an average steel will sound good in the hands of lets say Paul Franklin and I will still sound bad at his guitar. That is the point I am making.

I did buy a new Williams crossover 400x that was a keyless guitar and I have a few songs recorded of me playing it. It is pictured below. Notice how far the string is pulled for the 3rd string on the front neck. These heads could have been shorter , but they do work great.

As far as I am concerened , I have no desire to buy another guitar for several reasons. The main one would be the economy is so bad here that I couldn't afford one, but if I was looking at a new guitar I would only look at keyless. I currently have 2 steels that are not keyless and one of them is apart and the other has been in the case for some time.

Here is some more info links

http://www.gfimusicalproducts.com/Pages ... System.htm

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... sc&start=0

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... highlight=


http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=163826

http://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gearless.html

[Pat Comeau]

Hey Scott, with all those keyless PSG you've done you must have some spare keyhead laying around? , i need one for one of my next build...i'll buy it from you if the price is right .

[Scott Howard]

Pat
All are long gone . I have a MSA that I pulled the back neck off of left and a SD-12 Dekley that still have keyheads on them. Both 12 string. I plan on making these Universals and maybe sell one of them if times get better.

here is another interesting keyless with DUAL Pull / Release changers !!

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... sc&start=0

[Allan]

My understanding of the advantage of keyless PSG's is that you reduce the string length beyond the nut. This means less travel on the levers/pedals and a better return to the 'start note' on release of the applied change. Comment?
If I am right in the above statement then my question becomes this... Does any manufacturer use an arrangement like the Floyd Rose clamping nut? (or any other clamping nut for that matter) It seems to me, unless I am missing something basic, that a clamping system would pretty well do away with the need for a roller bridge too.

Allan.....

[Bent]

Scott, very interesting pics! With a changer in both ends and pull to raise/push to lower it becomes a pushPull without the added difficulties the PP has.

Allan, my comment would be 'correct on all points', from my meager learning on the subject.

A question ,and I asked this one of Scott already: What is everybody's opinion as to the effects of all these changes on the most important thing: Tone?
I guess we need opinions from more people who play one like this on a daily basis.

The Jackson Blackjack has a changer in both ends, although it has a keyed changer that turns the whole key assembly on a lower. Is this the same idea?
(push-release, pull-release)

[Scott Howard]

As we all know most of the pro's play keyed guitars. I think looks keeps it that way. I think keyless looks better,but the one BIG name player that comes to mind is Tom Brumley as he played keyless in later years . But it was also a Anapeg . Several good videos on U tube of several different make keyless guitars. I have seen videos of Williams , Kline , GFI , Lamar and probably a few others.

[Bent]

Agree with the looks analogy Scott. We all like tradition the best. It takes a re-education...
That said, the Anapeg is a very much loved and respected guitar. The biggest reason for this is the late Tom Brumley for sure.
Then again, Tom was one of those who could likely make a 4X4 with strings sound great

[Scott Howard]

Allan
I would agree to the first statement. The second one I can't say because I don't know what a Floyd Rose clamping nut is .

Bent
To me I like most of the keyless best for looks. It makes the guitar look more centered and uniform . There are a few keyless designs that I don't care for the looks of , but as for the Kline , Williams , BMI , Lamar and a few others , I think they look better than a keyed guitar.
You can say it , I know I am not normal.

[Georg]

You can say it , I know I am not normal.

Excellent!!! "Normal" too often equals "just another copycat", and there are enough of those as it is.

I have one major "abnormality" when it comes to steel guitars and instruments in general: I don't like the glare in "overpolished" metal surfaces. But "how to make all metal-surfaces look dull" belongs in another thread, me thinks

Keyless are fine with me, but I would prefer 'changer / keyless' integration so I can focus entirely on tonal qualities when constructing the bridge-end.