Introduction to a new Tuning/setup

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ed packard
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:54 am
Location: SHOW LOW AZ USA

Introduction to a new Tuning/setup

Post by ed packard »

Richard;
Let me hold up the mirror:
14 strings
4 picks
Ibanez GB vs. my Ibanez (70s) J Smith.
Electrical/mechanical interests.
Where does it end?

Richard et al:
Re tuning structures;

What I wanted =
Adjacent strings = adjacent chord intervals.
The ability to harmonize the Major scale in 3 thru 7 tone chord structures...west to east, and south to north.
Read sheet music directly to the strings.
Have the "new" structure resolve back to the base tuning.
Have the "new" principle transportable to the base (C6/B6/A6,) or other tunings.
And a bunch of other things that will become apparent as we go.

Below shows the tuning/setup I arrived in the 90s.

Image

I had 10 of these made for use in a music school that I have never had time to set up.

Here is a link to my Photobucket site that shows how the above expands out.
Pay particular attention to what one gets from P3, P4, used with the Emmons like P1P2 and assorted levers.

http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/ ... ?start=all

Edp
richard37066
Posts: 517
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:44 am
Location: Gallatin, Tennessee, USA

Re: Introduction to a new Tuning/setup

Post by richard37066 »

Ed -

I am very familiar with your "13 Series" tuning, having spied it upon the SGF a long time ago. The one thing which captured my immediate attention was the use of only four pedals. By cursory inspection, I found several things of interest but never truly exercised the tuning to its' fullest. I did, however, use Karlis Abolins' Guitar Map to fully explore the possibilities within 10 and 12 string tunings. At the time, I was not really thinking in terms of a 14 string instrument and only lightly entertaining a 12 string PSG. Although it was obvious that the other published copedants would not supply my needs, I persued the excercise in an effort to attain a good feel for that which worked and, also, where things fell apart - with reference to my own desires. Understand, now, that I was a REAL newbie with regards the PSG and had to do a bunch of walking before I began running. Needless to say, those many hours gave me an education and convinced me that I had to strike out upon my own since I couldn't simply "steal" an existing tuning.

It's quite apparent that you, at some point, came to the realization that only a 14 string configuration would afford the much desired flexibility. You now know that I, too, suffered the pain in coming to that same realization and, reluctantly, began to delve into the inherent possibilities contained therein.

Over these last couple of years, I've grown to highly respect your expertise and judgement. Your "13 Series" tuning no doubt contains much that I have not, as yet, discovered. If you will bear with me I fully intend to disect the tuning and, most likely, learn a few things from it. I'm currently up to my butt in alligators so I'll not be able to complete the endeavor by tomorrow, so to speak, but WILL do it at my earliest convenience.

You know that whatever transpires within this thread will be a meaningful dialogue and not a p-----g contest. I would hope that others would toss their ideas into the hat as well.

Gotta earn my piddling paycheck - even though its' a Sunday morn.

Richard
richard37066
Posts: 517
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:44 am
Location: Gallatin, Tennessee, USA

Re: Introduction to a new Tuning/setup

Post by richard37066 »

Ed -

A change of plans today afforded me the opportunity of loading your "13 Series" copedant into Karlis Abolins' Guitar Map and exercising it quite extensively. As expected, I found the entire litany of chords with appropriate combinations of pedals and levers. Nothing missing as far as I'm able to tell. Wouldn't expect it.

HOWEVER - and in all fairness - I realized that I was attempting to compare apples to oranges, given my personal preferences, and that just doesn't fly. To wit - and by way of explanation - the first guitar album that I ever bought was in 1954, Orlando, Florida called "Moonlight In Vermont" by - you guessed it - Johnny Smith. The original 10" LP no less! Replaced it a couple of years later with the 12" version. Still have it some 55-57 years later, supplanted by the reissue CD.

I immediately fell in love with "closed voicings". 'Twasn't long after that when I discovered Bill Evans and what I describe as "cluster chords" or voicings - modern extended "jazz" chords. The die was cast. This is not to say that I am averse to using "open voicings" of chords. The mood and the music determine which to use. There's much beauty to be found in each. You've been there, done that. The closed voicings provide what I term a "wash" of sound. Open voicings are, to me, majestic and with a resounding "bottom".

GIVEN MY OBVIOUS BIAS, I searched for two chords, in particular, within your copedant - a 13b9 and a dim7th. Off the top of my head I chose a D13b9 - the 5th resolving to the root in the key of G. The closed voicing of that is C, D#, F#, B - sans root. I found it in only two places: - Using L^ and R>, it is to be found at fret 4, strings 10, 9, 8, and 7. It is also found using P1 and P4 at fret 11, strings 12, 11, 10 and 9.

In addition, I searched for a Cdim7 (C, D#, F#, A) and found it in root position at only one place: - Using P3 and R<, fret 9, strings 8, 7, 6, and 5.

As an old guitfiddler yourself, you'll recognize these two as typical Smith voicings.

Now, where is all of this leading? First, and foremost, this is not meant to be critical of your copedant in any way, shape or form! All who read this should understand that fully! I exercised your copedant in an effort to LEARN something. My feeling is that, if I can achieve closed voicings of all chords then the open voicings might well be at hand with expanded "grips". And at more than just one position of the fretboard - neglecting the octave. And there is the key as mentioned in my last post. The goal is to come up with a copedant which will simultaneously provide my beloved closed voicings (with attendant open voicings?) but at several places within the fretboard such that I don't have to jump all over the place in effecting a string of progressions. I'm now very close and attempting to limit the pedals and levers to a maximum of 5 plus 6. It's a jigsaw puzzle, of sorts, but a little imagination and trial and error are bringing me closer.

Does all of this really contribute very much to this thread? Perhaps not, as I've severely restricted the options to my very narrow preferences. There may not be very many PSG players who have their heads in the same sonic "bag" as I.

Now - let me thoroughly complicate matters by revealing that I was weaned on country music! Loved it at age 4 and love it even more at age 75. Can I merge - or meld - the two into one copedant on 14 strings? Don't know but gonna try. May have to resort to a "lever lock" ala the Sierra. I'm not above doing so if the end result is there to be had.

In sum, I can only offer another idealistic approach to the quandary as imposed by a multitude of copedants. One cannot say that such-and-such is a "bad" copedant if it serves its' purpose. All have their merits. I simply find that virtually all do not satisfy my personal preferences - hence this foray off into left field in search of my personal sonic bliss commensurate with minimal motion.

Am I asking for the impossible? Unload on me, Doc! I can handle it!

Richard
ed packard
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:54 am
Location: SHOW LOW AZ USA

Re: Introduction to a new Tuning/setup

Post by ed packard »

Just a quickie....for Cdim7 (Cm6b5) try P1P2L>R<.
Image
you may have to squint for the m6b5 set.
More later.
Edp
richard37066
Posts: 517
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:44 am
Location: Gallatin, Tennessee, USA

Re: Introduction to a new Tuning/setup

Post by richard37066 »

Ed -

Aaaarrgh! Abolins doesn't give one the option of that chord and I missed the combination that you posted. However, the dim7 is to be found at the open, fret 3, fret 6, and fret 9. This was what I was expecting to see given the intervals of minor thirds in the chord along with appropriate pedal/lever combos.

Went to my notebook and found the info on the PST "13 Series". Did not see, in that copy, a reference to such things as bVII neck, bV neck, I neck etc. Further, it is abbreviated re the full-blown version - P3, P4 etc. Is that information available on your website? Am noticing some very interesting things in that lengthy posting. Gotta explore it further.

'Twould appear as if I'm reinventing about half of the wheel. Not necessary.

K.I.S.S.

Richard
ed packard
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:54 am
Location: SHOW LOW AZ USA

Re: Introduction to a new Tuning/setup

Post by ed packard »

Richard;

Assuming that you have Excel, I will email you the "post processor" for my solution program. It will allow you to choose the key of interest, then give you a list of the chords complete with root string and fret. All chords are for adjacent successive intervals. For inversions, Just respell the chord using the low note as the root. Chords without roots can be looked up also, but a bit trickier.

My general solution pgm for stringed instruments is used to solve for any coped/setup. It scans for all combinations of levers and pedals, and names the chords as you see above...2,3,4,5,6,&7 tone chords....and a bunch of other "stuff".

Where is Karlis...have not seen him around lately.

Edp
ed packard
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:54 am
Location: SHOW LOW AZ USA

Re: Introduction to a new Tuning/setup

Post by ed packard »

The coped/setup above is for my PST 13 series with a 25" scale, hence is shown in E. I actually use it in Eb as most "non country" music is written in flats.

For the 30" scale beast, I use the same gauges and setup, but tune it to C. Here it is in C. The same I, IV, V etc neck terminology holds.

Image

Next are some "changer" charts in available intervals convenient for constructing chords. The I, IV, V necks are now C, F, G.

Image

Image

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ed packard
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:54 am
Location: SHOW LOW AZ USA

Re: Introduction to a new Tuning/setup

Post by ed packard »

Although there is much more to be covered on the subject, I am going to drop out for a while. The reason is that the time will be spent focusing on the Semiconductor pickup/position sensor/ADC/DSP project. The pickup and non contact position sensor are just about ready for prime time. The basic blocks for the ADC and DSP just fell into place.

The PHOTOBUCKET site(s) listed above will remain available…with periodic additions for those interested.

Hasta

Edp
ed packard
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:54 am
Location: SHOW LOW AZ USA

Re: Introduction to a new Tuning/setup

Post by ed packard »

Have a few moments, so here is some annoyance for anyone interested:

http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/ ... TRUCTURES/ contains ways of looking at chords, necks, etc. for the E69 4x5, and C69 4x5 setups.

The 4x5 = 4 peds & 5 levs. The E69 has a 25" scale, and the C69 has a 30" scale.

a few of the charts contained above are shown below.

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ed packard
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:54 am
Location: SHOW LOW AZ USA

Re: The CM13 setup and structure

Post by ed packard »

The previous setup was an integration of the E9 and the 13th series concepts. This approach reminds me of weaning a calf from its mother = your fingers become the teat till the calf learns to drink from the bucket.

Here is our "bucket" (all 13th) without the fingers (no E9).

The presentation format will be like the previous setup.

Image

Jazz players paradise as you will see when you look at the available chords. What are the advantages?
Each string may be used as the root of a 13 series chord = two octave and 7 tones.
Each group of 3,4,5,6,or 7 strings is a chord.
Adjacent strings are adjacent intervals in the chord.
The changes are all +1 or -1 halftones...except for a -2 in one case.

Here is the album location for more info.
http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/ ... STRUCTURE/

If further interest, email me and ask for "FIND CM13" (free). It is and active Excel workbook for the CM13 setup.

edpackard@citlink.net
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