Pedal Stops

[Georg]

Pat, have you compared having the stop-arm stop against the underside of the top-plate - as Dave suggests, with having it stop against anything else - including the more normal variant with the stop-arm going downwards to stop against something along the lower edge of the front rail..?

As it is an improvement we're seeking in this thread, IIUC, comparing one solution to a problem with others on the same steel is the only somewhat sure way to determine if one solution really works better than the others in any way. At least that's how I do it when I'm seeking/testing various solutions to a problem.

Without such comparisons/tests we can only state our more or less well-founded believes and opinions and argue a bit back and forth. That's sure fun at times, but its usefulness tends to be somewhat limited, IMHO


Dave, I like overengineering things too, but to me less parts means less problems in the future so I try to get rid of as many as I can in the process

[Pat Comeau]

Hi Georg, the guitar is not finished yet...it should be good for testing in week cause im still waiting for some nylon tuners, strings ect... i ordered so i haven't rod the guitar yet, that guitar's got almost the same undercarriage as my last build except of roller bearing for the reverse knees and the pedal stops stop against the underside of the top-plate as oppose of my last build where it had the stops on the front apron, oh! and also my new build has the pedals and knees alittle closer together cause i found that my last one was alittle to far away, i move the pedals and left knees levers 1" 1/2 to the right , it'll be hard to see for sure if it makes a big difference having the stops underneath with a few things different from the other, the only way for sure is to have 2 identical guitars with different stops to test it and be sure if it helps with cabinet drop, my next build is going to have different pedal stops than those 2...now that i have my welder i can do pretty much anything out of aluminum

Pat C.

[12string]

Hi all,

I can't see how it will make any difference where the stop is, as the pedal still pulls the front apron downwards.
There is no counterforce upwards just pressure between the cross shaft axle and the body, one force pushing up the other down.
I guess it,s like trying to lift a bed you are laid in, you can't. You have to get out, put your feet on the floor in order to get an upwards lift.
One thing to concider is the pressure required to pull the pedal rod down. Using helper springs or lowering the gearing on bell cranks to make this easier will help, but in order to get the correct pedal feel it might be necessary to gear things up on the pedal end. It,s like torque on an engine, to reduce it , gear it down and rev it faster,

Stuart

[Georg]

You presented it extremely well, Stuart ... "it,s like trying to lift a bed you are laid in." Excellent!

Now, theoretically: if the frame is rigid enough and the top-plate is thin/weak enough, one may be able to push a bulge in the top-plate with the stop-arm. Maybe, on some uniquely constructed PSG that may reduce the body-drop effect by straightening out the downwards bend caused by varying string-tension when pedaling, ever so slightly. Doubt many PSGs have such a thin/weak top-plate and strong frame though, so this is just theory.


To add to the confusion: my Dekley does have such a thin/weak top-plate/soundboard that is easily bended, which after the mod I gave it contributes to very strong subharmonics/growl and improved sustain. A Dekley also has a a very rigid frame compared to most PSGs, and I used these characteristics to my advantage.

The slight body-drop compensation I designed in has nothing to do with pedal-stop(s) though. Instead, pedal-pushes pull down the free-floating end of the solid, laminated neck via the horizontal rods and bolted-on changer by a fraction of a millimeter - about the thickness of a human hair. This works in the right direction - adds tension to all strings - to cancel out the remaining (very tiny) degree of detuning imposed by pushing pedal A, B and C.

This pull via the changer that I exploited won't work in a positive way on normally constructed PSGs, so some simple math-software based on a "model PSG" (as mentioned in another thread) might do some good in preventing builders of regular PSGs from "trying to lift a bed you are laid in" while looking for improved solutions.

Nice exchange...

[mac639]

Just wondered what your opinions are on having adjustable pedal stops down at the pedals. I've just spent the day making pedals for stockpiling for whenever I get around to starting another guitar. I fell heir to a whole bunch of rectangular aluminum tubing and am thinking about using some to make a better pedal attachment to the pedal bar than I've been doing in the past. What other guitars do you folks know of that have(had) the stops at the pedal end rather than up under the body. Seems like that would alleviate some of the stress on the body perhaps reducing the dreaded cabinet drop.
Thanks for your input,
Mac

[Bent]

Mac, as for me I can't say I have ever seen that. It'll be interesting to see what you will cook up.

[azureskys]

I would also like to see that Mac. Russ

[Pat Comeau]

Here is one idea i thought about putting pedal stops under the pedals

Pat C

[12string]

I've seen stops on the pedals but I'm not sure where, I will try to remember. I always worried there would be movement depending on pedal pressure, resulting in detuning or overtuning,

Stuart

[Georg]

I always worried there would be movement depending on pedal pressure, resulting in detuning or overtuning

That's my thoughts also - that it'll be too easy to twist the pedal bar where it's attached to the legs if we push too hard. Don't know ... may work well enough on some PSGs.