Top Plate thickness?

[Pat Comeau]

I think Allan idea is the easiest way to go, after all...it's only 1/8" and i don't think it would make such a difference, my last Pedal Steel was made with 1/2" thick birdseyed maple and it's still looks good and rigid, i have a little cabinet drop about 4 to 6 percent but i can live with that .

thanks guys , this is the best forum

[Steve W]

Aen't Emmons push pulls 1/2?

I have cracks betwen the changer housing screws and the endplate on my early 60's sho bud. I assume those are there because the holes weren't drilled properly before adding the screws.

[Bent]

Pat, agreed. I know when to talk and when to listen. And when the authorities among us speak up, I do shut up and listen. That's how we learn.
Alan, the "bridge thing" kinda sunk in and made sorta sense and really, what's an 8th of an inch among friends? Pat, if you're using hard maple, I say go for it and chop it out.

You have 'a little' cab drop at 4 to 6 cents? Well, to each his own.You have to live with it. As for me, I was sadly surprised when the 2 guitars I built last summer were at 4 to 6 cents. I can just barely live with that. Actually I like the prototype I built a couple of years ago a bit better with its 2 to 2.5 cents.

I think we should not be satisfied with 6 cents but strive to make our projects as close to 0 as possible.

[village idiot]

Would there be any advantage with inlaying a re-enforcement between the neck and underlying cabinet to stiffen the whole top in a pedal steel? I remember many years ago my father would inlet a small metal I beam into his guitar necks to prevent neck bowing.
Roger
the certifiable village idiot

[Allan]

The difference between a 'spanish' guitar (including solid bodied electrics in that class) and a pedal steel is that, in the 'spanish', the sustain comes largely from the body and the neck is there to allow fingering. The entire top plate of the steel guitar is the 'body'. The thing is to find that magic balance between strength and the ability of the thing to vibrate and create tone/sustain. Too much stiffness gives strength and reduces cabinet drop (flex) but, at the same time, kills broad spectrum sustain. See where the magic comes in?

Regards, Allan.....

[village idiot]

ahhhh I see! ....... My dad always said his best sounding instruments were on the line between great tone and self destruction..... science blends into mystic art...... guess Id better put Gandalf on speed dial... This is probably a real can of worms for discussion, and no doubt every member has a personal feeling based upon their observations, but how does wood species effect sound, sustain and intonation. I have been considering a body of curly cherry with walnut neck since I have pieces from family members but I am also pretty pragmatic and I don't want to invest considerable time and expense into an instrument that would be inherently inferior because of materials. Modifying plans now is preferable to regret later.

[Bent]

I hesitate to call you by your handle so...what's your first name?

The way I look at wood species is really very basic. To tell you the truth, my opinion is that wood don't matter a heck of a lot to the tonal properties. I feel the main chore for the wood is to make a strong frame with which to prevent cabinet drop an all those goodies.
That said, I go by what some of the old guitars were built out of. Take the Bigsby..everybody likes the tone in them and they were made out of birds eye maple. Another grand sounding guitar has been the ShoBud ...birdseye here too. So of course what was good enough for those guys should also be good enough for me.
So birdseye is my #1 choice. But it is boring to use only one kind of wood. So I chose some hard maple for my "Red". More subtle grain but a strong guitar and good tone.
Another one I might be putting together will be made from hard maple top and black Walnut neck and aprons. Why? Because Paul Franklin told us once that he has a such a guitar and it is one of the sweetest guitars he has ever had. So...what's good enough for Paul is good enough for me. Plus the fact that Walnut has always been one of my favorite woods. So as you see, I don't put too much science into wood choice.

To put another twist on it: Most all-wood guitars are usually made out of some sort of maple

Other tastes and opinions might and likely will differ

[Allan]

There you go. There is a sort of a strange 'rule' that people will often quote. 'The darker the wood - the darker the tone'.
But, within the steel guitar constructors world, what Bent has discovered goes along with my own feelings too. This could cause some serious blow-ups but, for what it's worth, I have built (non pedal) steel guitars from poplar and from good quality multi-ply and also from redwood. Neither of those options comes even close to what most would call tone wood. The first two mentioned were console guitars and the redwood became a lap steel. (the redwood one is sort of only half finished but it has been strung and sounds good) Now, the one that sang best with rich overtones and sustain till tomorrow at breakfast was the plywood one. There is more to all of this than just the wood however. They all used different pickups and such. The ply console was the most satisfying to play though.
I have built solid bodied 'spanish' electric guitars from mahogany and also from poplar. In the case of the 'spanish' solids, it is true that the mahogany did work better but one example does not make a rule. In a nut shell - 'we don't need no stinkin' rules!'
OK, possibly just one rule then - this is my rule: If you have a piece of wood that rings and seems 'lively' when you hold it up and tap on it, kiss it and make a guitar from it.
This is all about enthusiasts building one or two off. If I were expecting to turn out a bunch of guitars of one type to sell, the attitude would be different I think.

Regards, Allan.....

[Georg]

In a nut shell - 'we don't need no stinkin' rules!'

Allan, do you mean to say I can continue to play with my ideas to laminate PSG top plates / sound boards out of thin sheets of wood, aluminum and steel? Would be nice...

Of course, some will, or already do, think I'm mad, but I prefer to take up stress/tension in aluminum neck and frame and use wood (mostly) for its decorative qualities. Thus, an 8-10 millimeter thick laminated top plate / soundboard (half that of what is being discussed in this thread) with the right sound qualities (pr. my own definition) when combined with the rest, will do nicely once I've gotten the layer-mix and gluing-technique with high-pressure and heat right - should keep me occupied for a while when I get home.
Once that is under control, the neck and frame will probably be built up using similar laminating techniques. There I intend to also take advantage of various wood-types' sound-dampening qualities when put as thin layers between equally thin layers of metal.

FWIW: I really like the CarpSteel for its sound qualities, strength and low weight - it certainly doesn't look like much...
Anyway, I bought a CarpSteel in Dallas - so I won't have to carry heavy (wooden or otherwise) steels around whenever and wherever I want to play - and now that I know what one can get out of a stamped-out piece of aluminum I really like that '... no stinkin' rules!' rule

[Allan]

Georg, my innovative friend - yes, you can do ANYTHING as long as you are willing to admit that it may need doing over. If someone is at a point where they are going to be damaged by a failure or a less than perfect result then they should be taking up knitting as a hobby. If someone feels that they could make a 'better' top plate from compressed bear poop then I will support them in it. They may have found the answer we have all been seeking! (please note - I am NOT willing to stand behind the bear to help harvest the building material)

We need to see pictures of the new machine once you get it set up!!!

'We don't need no steenkin' rules!'

Regards, Allan.....