Changer center supports

[Scott Howard]

In later years did MSA do away with the changer supports? What makers still use them ?

I don't think my Dekley has them and I don't remember but some one told me they are not a lot of help and really not needed.

Changer Diam. is 1/2 . Does it need them ? Is the axle going to flex too much without them ? I have the ones out of but will have to do a little work to get them back on it. I am going to have to open the changer hole a bit also since this was a 10 string originally.

[Bent]

Scott, The makes that still uses them eludes me. I can think of Emmons that uses one support in the middle.
Take the old Sho buds. They had support between each finger, and used a 5/16" axle Then, as far as I know, the changer was screwed onto the body with wood screws. No matter how strong the support was, the weakest link was the screws .
As for what I believe: Use at least a half inch axle and use steel hardened to 50 Rockwell or more. Use something that is guaranteed not to bend. Then fasten the changer using the "bolt-on" style, like the old Emmons PP..meaning 1/4" bolts thru the body and tightened with nuts underneath. Or, like I did, two 1/4" bolts up thru the body and tapped into each pillow block. Then you will know that the changer assembly is not the cause of your cab drop.

The first steel I made, I used a 1/2" axle. The 2 recent ones I made, I used 3/8" 306 stainless steel. Basically all other factors are the same in all three guitars. The 2 recent ones have more cab drop than the first one.

[Scott Howard]

I had a MCI that was like the Sho-Bud . I have also had a couple of Buds in the past so I know what you are saying there.
We can rule that design out because I am working with a factory MSA changer . I did find a picture of a later MSA 10 string and it does not have it in there.

I don't know the hardness and it will just take a little work to put them back in so I am going to study on it a bit , but I will probably just put them back in.

[Bill Ladd]

Scott -- I've got an MSA changer. No center supports and a .50" axle. Have no idea how old it is nor what guitar it came from. Double raise, double lower, if that helps date it.

I'm pretty sure ENCO stocks drill rod if you need. They have always shipped PDQ to me.

[Georg]

GFI seems to have changer axle support...
check official site image

I personally think having changer axle support is a good idea, as long as the rest of the changer mounting is up to the highest standard so it doesn't give under stress.

The original changer axle on my Dekley gave some, and contributed a great deal to the audible "body-drop". Still quite audible after I modified the entire changer mounting in 1992. I replaced the axle with the most hardened/rigid one I could get hold of back in 1994, and the problem disappeared.

The changer axle on my MSA S12uni also definitely is too weak, and contributes a whole lot to the extreme "body-drop" that MSA has. I can see the axle bend under stress with my "mirror-test", so the MSA needs a new/better axle for sure. Right now that MSA steel is "dead in the water" - unplayable - because it has such large overall drop/detuning.

[Bent]

Georg, I think the axle wasn't the main problem with your original Dekley. To me it looks like the anchoring underneath is way too weak. #8 machine screws thru some thin aluminum. From what I have seen without taking things apart, that is the main problem.

[Scott Howard]

Georg

That is close to the MCI and Sho Bud design . I am sure it is the best as far as support .

The guitar had 2 supports because it was a 12 string . What hardness do I need to look for if I buy a new drill rod for an axle . I have the factory axle but I have no idea as to what hardness it is. This is a very early 70's MSA that had a decal MSA and Classic emblem. I have a 73 and it is the plastic emblem . I know it is older than 73 and guess the axle got better as time went on . Maybe! Or could it be they cut back on production cost by not using the supports.

Fastenall has drill rod locally . I don't mind buying it and making a new axle , but don't know what I need as far as hardness.

Educate me please . Thanks

[Bill Ladd]

Crap. We need Burt.

[Scott Howard]

There is also a metal hardening buisness close by. Can they harden the current one to what is needed ?

[Georg]

Bent, the original anchoring on a Dekley is what it is - not much, but I had already replaced all that with my rigid, floating, neck and the original axle gave and caused audible detuning. Once the axle was replaced also, the detuning was no longer audible.