What copedent should I go with?

If it has Pedals...
Post Reply
sleepingdog
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:57 am
Location: Almonte, Ontario, Canada

What copedent should I go with?

Post by sleepingdog »

Now that I have settled on a changer design I am starting to look at the levers, pedals, rods, bell cranks etc. But before I can do that I obviously must settle on what copedent I will implement. So, given that I am a complete novice with respect to the PSG, what copedent should I go with? I think I would want something that's going to be compatible with online and/or DVD lessons. I will be putting 3 pedals and 4 knee levers (no knee up) on the guitar.

I would appreciate any and all thoughts or suggestions.

Thanks.
Dave
maxi19
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Milton Keynes, England

Re: What copedent should I go with?

Post by maxi19 »

Hello Dave,

I think the most common copedent for your proposed configuration is E9th, there are lots of instruction literature and video's available. There are many pedal/knee lever configurations and it is all down to individual preference.
Two of the most common are 'Emmons' and 'Day', I prefer the 'Day' setup but as I say it is all individuality.
sleepingdog
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:57 am
Location: Almonte, Ontario, Canada

Re: What copedent should I go with?

Post by sleepingdog »

Thanks Ron. E9th is definitely the direction I want to go. I should have mentioned that. It was narrowing down the vast number of E9th copedents out there that was twisting my brain. You've done that. I'll compare the two you suggested, and just pick one and go with it for now. If I can build this guitar then I should be able to tweak the copedent later on if/when I figure out what I want.
Dave
Jason Lynch
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:42 pm

Re: What copedent should I go with?

Post by Jason Lynch »

Me personally, I went for the Emmons setup, and I found that quite easy to get on with.
My knee levers for lowering and raising the Es are split between the two knees, and I would recommend that but again, horses for courses. As for the others, I raise 1 & 7, and I lower 2 a half step, then a hole step along with string nine. That's becoming a regular change.
sleepingdog
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:57 am
Location: Almonte, Ontario, Canada

Re: What copedent should I go with?

Post by sleepingdog »

Appreciate the input, Jason.

I have been looking on bOb.com at the copedents he has listed. Emmons looks like this on that site:
Credit: The Pedal Steel Pages bOb.com
Credit: The Pedal Steel Pages bOb.com
Emmons Copedent.PNG (94.01 KiB) Viewed 2027 times
@Jason: Note that he shows the E-changes both on the left knee. Have you just swapped it around so that those changes are split between knees?

Also, the Day copedent as shown on bOb.com has the pedal order reversed compared to that shown for Emmons. LKL is the same on both. All other knees are different. I could see that making following lessons that much harder if I will have to modify pedal instructions in my head. Or is that the kind of thing one just has to deal with when learning this instrument?

At this point I'm leaning towards implementing the Emmons copedent shown above.
Dave
b0b
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:14 pm

Re: What copedent should I go with?

Post by b0b »

sleepingdog wrote:Also, the Day copedent as shown on bOb.com has the pedal order reversed compared to that shown for Emmons. LKL is the same on both. All other knees are different. I could see that making following lessons that much harder if I will have to modify pedal instructions in my head. Or is that the kind of thing one just has to deal with when learning this instrument?

At this point I'm leaning towards implementing the Emmons copedent shown above.
Printed lessons label the pedals and knee lever with the letter names A B C for the pedals and D E F (and sometimes G and X) for the levers. The functionality is thus decoupled from the physical positions of the levers.

When you have been playing for a while, you get used to which lever moves which strings. The only problem is when you are playing someone else's guitar which may be set up differently. Most players use something very close to the Emmons copedent, with the E raises and lowers on LKL and LKR respectively. You have made the correct choice.
Jason Lynch
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:42 pm

Re: What copedent should I go with?

Post by Jason Lynch »

Yes, I have Es raise on LKL, and Es lowered on RKL. My teacher, David Hartley pays that way and it's how my current guitar was set up when I got it. He suggested I leave it that way and I'm used to it now.
sleepingdog
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:57 am
Location: Almonte, Ontario, Canada

Re: What copedent should I go with?

Post by sleepingdog »

b0b wrote:You have made the correct choice.
Thanks for the confirmation, Bob.
Dave
Keith Cary
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:16 pm

Re: What copedent should I go with?

Post by Keith Cary »

I'm likely to get laughed out of court for this madness but here's my extremely non-standard E9. If you've never played E9 before, don't necessarily need to play modern licks and don't plan to play anyone else's steel, well, it's possible. Top down: Eb-G#-F#-E-B-G#-F#-E-B-D. The Eb and D are "out of order". The other strings are very much in order, with standard Emmons changes. I tried and tried for years and couldn't wrap my little brain around the chromatic strings. I'm mostly a C6 player, natch. With AB pedals down, or E knee lever engaged, I'm very much on familiar ground. Within a year or so I was playing with bands, sounding way more E9 than C6. --- I'd only mention this here, on the builders forum, not in polite society. This wasn't invented by me but by a pro player who remains anonymous.
Post Reply