New yorker replica: finished!

[banjo980]

Hello everybody
I'm new on lapsteel and discovered it through the Dobro (one year practicing, and 10 years for the 5 string banjo)
I've already built 2 archtop mandolins (a fully home made designed archtop mandolin, and a F5 (installing the binding on the volute is hell!), and a 5str banjo (I got the reso from FQMS)
I fall in love with the National New Yorker and decided to built one. I draw one from pictures I got from the net (I knew the lenght, width and scale)... and finally bought one I got back home some days ago: a 6 strings 1953 model in pretty good conditions. I could notice that my draw was not so bad...
Now I'd like to build one 8strings one... But the headstock is longer to accomodate with the 8 tuning machines (like on the 1939 one, I suppose) and I suppose too that the neck is larger...
Could you help me please: What would you use as headstock length, and width of the neck and strings spacing at the nut and at the bridge? I dont have any 8 strings lap steel to look for here in New Caledonia
Thank you for your help,

Xavier

[Paul Lafountaine]

Hi Xavier and welcome to the forum. You will find the people here are very helpful and knowledgeable. As I do not know if the strings on your New Yorker are tapered from the bridge to the nut and what the string spacing is I will tell you what I would do. Measure your bridge and the string spacing. If the string spacing is we'll say 3/8" and you want to add 2 strings you need to make your bridge 6/8" or 3/4" longer to accommodate the 2 additional strings. I would then use the same procedure for the nut. As for the key head, measure the length of the key head of the 6 string New Yorker. Now measure the center to center distance of your tuning pegs. If the length from one tuner peg to the other center to center is 1-5/8" add that to the measurement of the 6 string key head.

I hope this has helped and made sence. You can pretty well use this approach to obtain all of your measurements. Just remember that you will also have to increase the width of you key head, neck, fret board and possibly body for the additional 2 strings. Good Luck with your project.

By the way what tuning are you using?

Paul

[banjo980]

Hi Paul, thank you for your help.
the neck is exactly 2 inches width at the nut (5.1 mm)
I checked this topic on another forum:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=117255
and I think (I suppose but keep in mind that english is not my native language) that the first new yorkers were made with the same shape for 6-7 and 8 strings
Please look at the 3rd picture of the above link: there is a 8strings new yorker, and the neck and headstock looks very similar to the one on the first pic, 6 strings
So I need your advice/ do you think I have to enlarge the neck, headstock and nut (and of course bridge), or can I place 8 strings on a 2 inches bridge? Or what would be the minimal nut width allowed?
I suppose that pieces of wood were cut the same way for 6-7 and 8 strings, is it stupid?

For the tuning machines, the length of the headstock is 15 cm, i.e. 5.9 inches. That places a tuning machine every 2.7 cm (an inch is 2.54 cm), when centered. I can make it a bit longer if necessary...
Thank you for your help,
Xavier

[banjo980]

Oh, Paul, I (try to) use the C6 tuning... I found a nice version of "Harbor lights" on youtube and could tab it for me (it is the "steelguitarmojo" version, played on a 8 strings lap, but I really think he doesnt pick the two last strings)
I cant find any C6 strings here so I'm tuned in G6 and play 5 frets higher...

Xavier

[Paul Lafountaine]

Hi again! What you have to realize is this is your project my friend. Are you comfortable with the feeling of the 6 string New Yorker when you play it. If so use it as a model for your 8 string project. From the pictures that you linked to, I believe that the neck is tapered. The string spacing is larger at the bridge and narrows towards the nut. If you use those measurements all you have to do is add enough to the overall width of the guitar, and length of the key head to accommodate the addition of 2 strings. As long as you use the same scale, the measurement from bridge to nut, will remain the same. I hope I am making sence here, I do not want to confuse you.

Paul

[banjo980]

Hi Paul,
Thank you again, of course I realize that it's my project. My problem is that I have not enough experience of the lapsteel to know about playability when strings are narrower than usual... I'd like to make the neck as narrow as possible to keep the nice shape of the New Yorker... but I want too the final product to be fully playable...
In fact what would be for you the smallest string spacing that allows to enjoy playing?
Thanks

Xavier

[Georg]

Xavier, from what I can tell from the pictures you linked to, the neck of the 8 string is same width or only slightly wider than that of the 6 string. On the 8 string they have placed the 1st and 8th string extremely far out compared to on the 6 string, and I wold guess string spacing is pretty equal on the 6 string and 8 string.

[banjo980]

Georg,
I think you're right.
I found this pic from several New Yorkers from different years of production:


The picture is Fred Kinbom's one, hope he allows me to use it...

I own one like the upper one, with a shorter headstock, but the older ones have a longer headstock that can accommodate with the 4 machine tuners. (I really suppose that before WWII the new yorkers were cut the same way whenever for 6- or 8 strings...)
The necks seems to be the same... so I'll have to redraw the headstock about 1 inch longer I think... 27 mm seems to be too short between the tuning machines. Paul, you're right.

Anyway, every useful information is welcome about this project...
Thanks,

Xavier

[Paul Lafountaine]

Good morning Xavier! I have been looking at several pictures of both the 6 and 8 string model and I have to agree with Georg. The 8 string model looks to have the same string spacing as the 6 string and the first and eighth string is right on the very edge of the nut. What is with width of the nut on your six string National and what is the string spacing on the nut? Thanks

Paul

[banjo980]

Good morning Paul,
The wood neck is 5.1 cm width at the nut, the lucite fretboard is 4.75 cm (so I can make it a bit larger to make if flush)
The bone saddle is 4.9 cm
the string spacing is 7.8 mm and the free space between outer strings and extremity of the nut is about 3 mm
Here are some pics from my original National showing the nut:



The overall vue of the instrument:


... and just for you to know... a pic of my homemade F5 mandolin... So you know I can do some not so bad woodworking and your help won't be too much wasted:-):


You can see here 6 and 8 string new yorkers on the same picture: The headstock is longer (how much?) on the 8 strings, but the neck really seems to be the same:
http://rickalexander.com/BigSteel/Natio ... rkers.html

Thank you,

Xavier