something i didnt know

[azureskys]

i always thought from what i been reading, is or was that you had to have rollers (at the nut) on a pedel steel guitar,Well i looked at GFI and the keyless tuner that they produce does not i repeat does not have rollers, well well , i think they look nice on a guitar but are they really needed or not , does the string really move that much that they are needed or not , does the string move at all when you press a pedel ? something i dont know . My old MSA has rollers and my old showbud has rollers and ive even made roller nuts for guitars , what gives here Russ

[Allan]

Hi Russ,

It is all to do with how much string is 'past' the nut. In other words, with a conventional geared tuning set up, you would need them. In a well designed keyless setup it is less of a problem as there is a very small amount of string outside of the nut. Some will say that there aught to be rollers there anyhow - it's all a matter of opinion.
Bottom line, you don't want the string sticking at the nut so as not to return to 'rest' tuning. For me, if I was building a 'keyless head' I would try without rollers to see what happened and then add them if I had to.

Allan.....

[azureskys]

Hi Allen , how about a locking system at the nut like on some rock guitar tremolo systems ? Its just a little puzzling to me that after all this time makers used rollers and now no rollers ya know .Like you suggested try it and see , probly a nice smooth nut like stainless or brass , something to think about anyway isnt it lol Thanks for your comment Allen. Russ

[Bent]

Allan, I never knew that. See, in this excellent forum I learn something every day.
Let me put it this way though: It never hurts to have a roller nut there.

[Allan]

@Russ, I think a locking system (Floyd-Rose-ish?) would be fine. Only problem would be that it would have to be out of the way a bit to allow the bar to be run right off over the nut. Before this forum came to be, I suggested a locking system in a thread on the SGF. I was amazed to learn that no one knew what I was talking about. The FR system was designed for whammy-bar dive bombers so I think it would have to be OK on a steel guitar.

@Bent, How right you are. I have learned from just about everyone who posts here at some point.

Allan.....

[azureskys]

Allen i think your right a locking system would work , i have a couple guitars with that on them and they work great , cant see no reason why not on a steel however your right about it needing to be lower than the nut for bar access, i will admit rollers are tried and true however GFI has changed the rules it seems , there is probly alot of different ways of doing it , we ll see . i think i might give it a shot without rollers . thanks Russ

[Bob T.]

Only the keyless GFI has no roller nut. The ones with the regular keyhead all have roller nuts.

[Don McGregor]

I think having a locking nut pretty requires having some kind of fine tuners for each string at the bridge end. Otherwise, any fine tuning during practice or performance would require removal of the locking part of the nut. This sounds like it could work well on a non pedal instrument, as long as the lock was out of the way of bar movement, but how the heck could you incorporate a fine tuner setup into the changer system?

[Allan]

I was thinking, and it is only a thought at this stage, if the locking device was 'outside' the nut, lock/release could be with a lever for quick action. This would mean that it could be released, say, between numbers, to allow for touch-up tuning using the normal key head. Dunno, it's just vague thoughts at this point. Growing out of the original post. You make a good point though. Worth a 'think' for sure. Just a quick observation, I think that a good old 'blues bend' or a whammy bar dive bomb probably puts more change on string tension than a bit of pedal stomping would. I need to look into that.

Allan.....

[azureskys]

fine tuners on the changer hummm, i need to give that some thought and your right about the wammy bar Allen , it ll put alot more stress on a string that a pedel ever will , i like that locking system thing though.