Lap steel project
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 4:08 pm
Hi everyone!
I’m new to this forum and to the lap steel as well. I’ve been playing guitar for 15 years, but it would be interesting to try out something different. I have a couple of guitar related projects going on so I thought that maybe I could build myself a lap steel at the same time.
I will make my own design, but when it comes to sound, my main inspiration is the National New Yorker, and foremost the models from the thirties with one visible and two concealed pickups. I’m not going to search for obsolete authentic special parts though; instead I will use what I can find on the net. Anyhow, before I start purchasing parts for this project I have some questions that I need to straighten out. I would much appreciate if you could help me with some input!
1. What scale length is the National New Yorker? 22,5”?, 23”?
2. The more versatile sound – the better and with three pickups combined with a 5-way rotary switch there will be plenty of possibilities. But if I have to pick just one sound character for my upcoming steel, this Is what I’m looking for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFOwsAGA ... re=related sounds absolutely beautiful!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbYVtmIJBVE (In harp mode only)
a) The question is: What combination of pickups should I use to get as close to these sounds as possible? Humbucking?, strat?, tele?, P90?, soap bar?, lipstick?
b) What about output and resistance of the pickups?
c) Does anyone know how the New Yorker is wired in the harp mode?
d) What positions is then preferable for each pickup type?
e) Where are the best positions for the concealed pickups? For instance, does one of the concealed pickups need to be placed right under 24th “fret”?
First I had this wacky idea of using the pole pieces of the pickup as “fret markers” – that would be drilling six holes through the fingerboard for both 12th and 24th fret and then fix the pups somehow so that the top of the magnets (preferable painted in black) would look like black dot markers as on a conventional guitar and blend in together with the rest of the dot markers, but first out, I have no clue if the particular sound would benefit from that solution. And then I guess it probably would be a lot trickier to build it that way too, so maybe it has to wait till next project, I’m not sure.
Any comments on this idea?
Anyhow, when using concealed pickups there’s more or less wood covering the pickups which I guess will affect and interfere with the ability to pick up the string vibrations. I’ve never tried experimenting with concealed pickups, but my first thought is that the signal would decrease a lot compared to using a visible pickup. If that’s true you have to have hotter pickups for it to work and balance with the visible bridge pickup. Am I right and is this a big issue? Solutions?
Well, this is why I got into the visible pole piece thing. But since the New Yorker works and sounds lovely with concealed pups, I guess it would work for me as well. At least I hope so!
3. What string gauge would you recommend?
4. I’m quite unsure about what kind of bridge I will use; it feels like there’s a jungle out there. Tele bridge, tune-o-matic, a string-through-body solution and all the specific lap steel bridges...
a) If I for example would use a classic tele bridge with (or without) string through body and then use brass bars instead of the teles bridge saddles and as a nut as well. Then, do the bars need to have notches in both nut and bridge position?
I think I’ve read somewhere that in some cases you don’t need notches, but to me it feels like the string would slip without them.
b) If I use some kind of string-through-body do the bushings need to go throughout the body so that the strings lean on the same material (as few “vibrations points” as possible for increased sustain) all the way from the ball end of the strings to the machine heads?
c) Wrap-around bridges is also an alternative. But since most of these bridges have saddles at different hight, can there be a radius issue? Or is it just to file down the four top saddles and get a decent result that way?
d) Does standard string spread for guitar work well for lap steel?
Any ideas or recommendations on bridges for my purpose? The simpler the better, but again, any bridge that turns the sound a fraction closer to the New Yorker I will probably use.
Alright, that was a lot of questions, but any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!
I’m new to this forum and to the lap steel as well. I’ve been playing guitar for 15 years, but it would be interesting to try out something different. I have a couple of guitar related projects going on so I thought that maybe I could build myself a lap steel at the same time.
I will make my own design, but when it comes to sound, my main inspiration is the National New Yorker, and foremost the models from the thirties with one visible and two concealed pickups. I’m not going to search for obsolete authentic special parts though; instead I will use what I can find on the net. Anyhow, before I start purchasing parts for this project I have some questions that I need to straighten out. I would much appreciate if you could help me with some input!
1. What scale length is the National New Yorker? 22,5”?, 23”?
2. The more versatile sound – the better and with three pickups combined with a 5-way rotary switch there will be plenty of possibilities. But if I have to pick just one sound character for my upcoming steel, this Is what I’m looking for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFOwsAGA ... re=related sounds absolutely beautiful!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbYVtmIJBVE (In harp mode only)
a) The question is: What combination of pickups should I use to get as close to these sounds as possible? Humbucking?, strat?, tele?, P90?, soap bar?, lipstick?
b) What about output and resistance of the pickups?
c) Does anyone know how the New Yorker is wired in the harp mode?
d) What positions is then preferable for each pickup type?
e) Where are the best positions for the concealed pickups? For instance, does one of the concealed pickups need to be placed right under 24th “fret”?
First I had this wacky idea of using the pole pieces of the pickup as “fret markers” – that would be drilling six holes through the fingerboard for both 12th and 24th fret and then fix the pups somehow so that the top of the magnets (preferable painted in black) would look like black dot markers as on a conventional guitar and blend in together with the rest of the dot markers, but first out, I have no clue if the particular sound would benefit from that solution. And then I guess it probably would be a lot trickier to build it that way too, so maybe it has to wait till next project, I’m not sure.
Any comments on this idea?
Anyhow, when using concealed pickups there’s more or less wood covering the pickups which I guess will affect and interfere with the ability to pick up the string vibrations. I’ve never tried experimenting with concealed pickups, but my first thought is that the signal would decrease a lot compared to using a visible pickup. If that’s true you have to have hotter pickups for it to work and balance with the visible bridge pickup. Am I right and is this a big issue? Solutions?
Well, this is why I got into the visible pole piece thing. But since the New Yorker works and sounds lovely with concealed pups, I guess it would work for me as well. At least I hope so!
3. What string gauge would you recommend?
4. I’m quite unsure about what kind of bridge I will use; it feels like there’s a jungle out there. Tele bridge, tune-o-matic, a string-through-body solution and all the specific lap steel bridges...
a) If I for example would use a classic tele bridge with (or without) string through body and then use brass bars instead of the teles bridge saddles and as a nut as well. Then, do the bars need to have notches in both nut and bridge position?
I think I’ve read somewhere that in some cases you don’t need notches, but to me it feels like the string would slip without them.
b) If I use some kind of string-through-body do the bushings need to go throughout the body so that the strings lean on the same material (as few “vibrations points” as possible for increased sustain) all the way from the ball end of the strings to the machine heads?
c) Wrap-around bridges is also an alternative. But since most of these bridges have saddles at different hight, can there be a radius issue? Or is it just to file down the four top saddles and get a decent result that way?
d) Does standard string spread for guitar work well for lap steel?
Any ideas or recommendations on bridges for my purpose? The simpler the better, but again, any bridge that turns the sound a fraction closer to the New Yorker I will probably use.
Alright, that was a lot of questions, but any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!