Lap Steel Intonation

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The German
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Lap Steel Intonation

Post by The German »

I see that many Laps are built with a straight line bridge on them. The question of intonation comes up. Is it not that critical on a Lap? I have been thinking about what I will do on my next build project and maybe making my own bridge.
A good instrument is like a lady. Treat it nice and it will make memories.
ljs
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Location: North East(the town) PA

Re: Lap Steel Intonation

Post by ljs »

I am looking forward to an explanation regarding this. As I understand it the difference lies in the fact that the string on a fretted instrument is pushed down to the fret, whereas the lap steel the bar is placed on top of the string, but I know that explanation doesn't really answer the question nor does it really help to understand the difference. I too look forward to the answer.
LaVern
maxi19
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Re: Lap Steel Intonation

Post by maxi19 »

I may be wrong, but, on a fretted instrument the note position is fixed, so has the advantage of an adjustable bridge for intonation, whereas on a lap steel the player has the ability to place the bar at the correct sounding position without the restriction of a fret.
After all, lapsteels and pedalsteels are played by 'ear' and the 'fret' positions are only really 'visual assists'. ;) ;) :D

Regards to all Ron Mc
ljs
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Re: Lap Steel Intonation

Post by ljs »

So then are we as musicians moving and placing the bar on a slight angle subconsciously to bring it in tune? I know in the past I have been told that one of my weaknesses on the steel guitar was not keeping the bar perpendicular to the strings. On a guitar the bridge is slanted or adjusted for proper intonation. So I guess just as before I still can't get my head around the straight bridge vs. the slanted one, but that's okay because I believe there is a reason for it and like many things in life I just believe with out fully understanding. Thanks.
LaVern
Sonhenry
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Re: Lap Steel Intonation

Post by Sonhenry »

That adjustable intonation on a guitar is to correct for the difference in tension when you fret the string. It's a big deal on a guitar, not such a big deal on a lap steel.

FWIW I put a supro bride plate and pickup on a tele once. Great slide guitar until you tried to fret it up the neck, then it was way out of tune fretted. Lap style it was in tune all the way up. Didn't need the compensation for the steel bar, but really needed it for the fretted notes..
ljs
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Re: Lap Steel Intonation

Post by ljs »

Soinhenry,
Thanks for the reply. It's been a year, perhaps the passage of time has given more time to think about it and provide more discussion on the topic. Like I said prviously I don't understand it but I don't doubt it that a slanted bridge in not needed on a lap steel.
LaVern
Sonhenry
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Re: Lap Steel Intonation

Post by Sonhenry »

Right. If you needed a slanted bridge then your fret markers should be increasingly slanted too...
ljs
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Re: Lap Steel Intonation

Post by ljs »

Oops! SonHenry, I just noticed that I added an "I" to your name. Sorry about that.
LaVern
TonyRussellDavis
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Re: Lap Steel Intonation

Post by TonyRussellDavis »

The note F# in a scale of G is technically higher than the note Gb (which belongs in the scale of Db). Some instruments (particularly in folk music) are tuned to a precise sale. E.G. Northumbrian pipes are tuned so that each note is an exact 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc from the tonic (called "G", but rarely concert pitch) of the instrument, in a scale of G; and the F# is exactly the 7th of the scale or it would sound flat. Every note is tuned exactly with reference to that G.
That's also why Scottish bagpipes sound "right" only in certain related pentatonic scales. Fiddlers etc. can also differentiate between sharps and flats.
However a piano, for instance, has to compromise as each note has to serve in any scale. So it's F# is midway between that and Gb. That way it can play in G and can play in Db using the same "compromise" note - F#/Gb.
A fingered guitar works in a similar way and to compensate for that "compromise" the intonation of each string has to be adjusted, notice how the thicker strings need more distance to the bridge. Thus you can play in many keys but sometimes, especially on an acoustic, you seem to need to re-tune if you go to a key that's unrelated to the key of the last song where the pitch seemed perfect.
On a steel guitar the notes at each fret are pitched with reference to each other at the same fret, so if your tuning allows a Gm7 (a G chord with a major 7th, i.e. F# on top of a G, B and a D) the F# will be just that and not a Gb. This works because at each fret you have, effectively, moved the nut (fret zero) to that position and if the notes at zero were in tune with each other, so they will also be in tune at fret "n".
That was difficult to put into words, I only hope it makes sense to you. Also check out "just" and "unjust" temperament (or intonation). :shock:
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