Nitrocellulose

Finishing methods and saftey, inlay...
User avatar
Pat Comeau
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:49 pm
Location: New-Brunswick Canada
Contact:

Re: Nitrocellulose

Post by Pat Comeau »

My brother has his company making hardwood floors in Montreal for over 30 years and he said that water base lacquer is crap, as of septermber 2010 in Quebec there will be no more lacquer products :( available and he tried the water base and said it's not as good as real lacquer and doesn't have the shine also, maybe later down the road they will be able to make a better product to replace lacquer but they haven't yet :)
Bent
Posts: 1397
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:10 pm
Location: Ontario Canada
Contact:

Re: Nitrocellulose

Post by Bent »

Pat..maybe you could expand on that. Like, saying it's crap just doesn't say much, you know? sure, I know your brother has 30 years experience, but allow me to say that is with floors. It's a totally different animal when you go to finish a guitar cabinet, or a table. Different wear and load characteristics exposure to different chemicals. There might possibly be less of a shine on the finished product but this is where sanding and buffing comes in.
The table I finished with water based lacquer about 20 years ago has stood the test of time. The finish is as beautiful as the day I did it. It has not faded or yellowed. There are no cracks or checks. No water marks or stuff like that.
http://benrom.com/
21 BenRom pedal steel guitars, a Nash 112 and a 1967 TOS Milling machine with many cutters making one hell of a mess on the floor.
jsnhull
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Nitrocellulose

Post by jsnhull »

Bent wrote:Can you do invisible repairs with water based? Is it as flexible as thinner based?
Sorry, Bent, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was trying to correct you. There is very little standardization in finish terminology, so I thought I'd clarify a little. Everybody seems to use words like lacquer and varnish, without really knowing what the finish is made of.

To answer your question: yes. Lacquer is lacquer, regardless of the solvent, which evaporates eventually. Once water-based lacquer is cured, you can use solvent-based lacquer to do repairs. It's the solvent that allows the new lacquer to melt into the old. Flexibility varies by manufacturer and formula, but, generally speaking, the characteristics are similar once cured.

Application is another matter entirely, and I imagine that's the problem that Pat's brother had with it. The early formulas were extremely prone to blushing, when moisture gets trapped in the finish, causing a cloudy appearance. The new formulas are much better, but you still have to be careful, and make sure that your shop is dry. The best water-based finishes that I've seen (Rolfe Gerhardt's) have been applied with a HVLP gun by an experienced sprayer.
Bent
Posts: 1397
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:10 pm
Location: Ontario Canada
Contact:

Re: Nitrocellulose

Post by Bent »

Hey Jason, you didn't sound like you were trying to correct me..No offense taken. I'm in it for the learning anyway so correct me whenever warranted!
The water based lacquer I used 18 years ago was the Behlen. If it has improved from there, I would be very willing to try it again! I liked it that much! I just feel that it has to have the very same characteristics as the Nitrocellulose because of its special formula for instruments..it is very flexible; more so than ordinary lacquer.
http://benrom.com/
21 BenRom pedal steel guitars, a Nash 112 and a 1967 TOS Milling machine with many cutters making one hell of a mess on the floor.
Post Reply