Nitrocellulose

Finishing methods and saftey, inlay...
Bent
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Nitrocellulose

Post by Bent »

Even the name sounds nasty. I can vouch for the fact that it is. Face mask and super ventilation is a must.
I used this stuff (from Mohawk) for my 2 steels.
I had to buy a whole gallon and also a gallon of Mohawk "Vinyl Sealer". The price wasn't too bad ( $70 delivered) but I hate throwing stuff away...and where do you throw crap like that??

Anyway..I was told that this stuff has a shelf life of about a year, that's sorta why I got busy making these last 2 bodies and necks so I could make use of the last half-gallon of Nasty.

I guess my question is: Have any of you had any experience with Nitrocellulose finishes, so you can verify or refute this shelf life thing?

I haven't quite decided if the bodies I made measure up to my latest plans for the next project. Still, it would be worth finishing them, if for nothing else but an experiment, and also practice for me in spray finishing.
Let me know of your experience with this stuff.
http://benrom.com/
21 BenRom pedal steel guitars, a Nash 112 and a 1967 TOS Milling machine with many cutters making one hell of a mess on the floor.
rocks66ss
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:17 pm
Location: Prairie Village, Kansas

Re: Nitrocellulose

Post by rocks66ss »

Nitrocellulose Lacquer
Nitrocellulose lacquer was initially marketed as a fast-drying alternative to wood treatments such as shellac and varnishes. It was also combined with pigment to produce one of the first spray-on paints. Today it is still used for staining woods as it's cheap, dries quickly and blends well with the natural grain and coloring of different woods.

Not sure what so nasty about it? It's a Lacquer nothing more nothing less. Thin it a little bit and keep it sealed it should last a long time. I first used it to refinish a 1966 Fender Mustang I've had since it was new. I wanted to keep with the original process as much as possible. I used the Dakota Red pigment in the lacquer, and followed the original process. Looks like it did when it left the factory.

I also use it to finish my steels. I build them with rock Hard Maple, natural wood. I shoot about Twenty coats and wet sand with 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000, and then rub it out by hand. It's a great Lacquer to use for musical instruments.

Rocky
Allan
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Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:55 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Nitrocellulose

Post by Allan »

Some years ago I bought a can of brush on nitro. someone had told me that it made a great sealer if you brushed on one coat and let it dry then sanded it off. It took a while to dry but it did the job very well. Anyhow, I added a little thinner and gave it a stir and put the can away and promptly forgot about it. Recently I re-discovered it having forgotten it very efficiently indeed. I gave it a good stir and put some of it on a lap steel that I am sort of fooling with now and then. Since that first coat I have applied, I am guessing, around twelve or fourteen coats, all by brush, and it look great. Truth is, I am finding the stuff a total pleasure to work with.
As I said in the above, I have only used it a total of these two times, once as a sealer and now as what will become a final coat. I have been looking in to the stuff and found an article that talks about the nice finish that can be achieved using a 'floating color' method so I am trying that on the lap steel. That is where you apply multiple coats of clear then the color coat and then more clear on top. I am not sure why that should be better than starting with the color coat but it seems that it gives a good effect. I am waiting for my pigment to arrive to give this a go anyhow. I'll let you all know if this is a real winner or not once I know. As I have said before on other threads, I am seriously weather affected right now so I don't know when, but it will get done sometime.


Regards, Allan.....
Only nuts eat squirrels.
Keep yer tools sharp! That way you can use more of your strength guiding them AWAY from your body rather than forcing the cut!!!
Bent
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Re: Nitrocellulose

Post by Bent »

Rocky, in fact there is more nastiness to nitro vs regular lacquer. There is a different MSDS on it and also requires better ventilation and top of the line filter equipment for your breathing apparatus. When I applied mine, I was in constant touch with a finishing expert from Mohawk and he for one informed me of the dangerous ingredients in nitro. It also requires a high quality thinner, not an off the shelf type. the numbers and ingredients have to match up.

As to shelf life, it was recommended to me that I should use it within a year...I asked you all about this, seeing that it could also be a marketing ploy. Thanks for informing me as to the shelf life.

The expert told me that 1 to 2 coats of vinyl sealer should be applied, not more. No more than six wet coats of nitro should then be applied with an hour in between coats. Of course no sanding between coats. Then, if the painter knows his stuff, no polishing or sanding should be required...the shine will come up to a high gloss he informed me. Due to my lack of experience in that dept., my finish was below the expected gloss. it is then that he recommended I use 800, 1000 and 1500 wet paper with a paint thinner(varsol) lubricant, followed by auto paint swirl remover 2.0. I then got the shine to come up great
http://benrom.com/
21 BenRom pedal steel guitars, a Nash 112 and a 1967 TOS Milling machine with many cutters making one hell of a mess on the floor.
Allan
Posts: 419
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:55 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Nitrocellulose

Post by Allan »

Bent, I just re-read your OP. I realize that I didn't put a number on the time I kept the stuff around and that was what you actually asked! Sorry about that. I had the can lying in my shop, summer and winter, for three years before I got it out again to re-use recently. I did wonder about the shelf life but it LOOKED fine so I went ahead and all was fine. It is producing a really nice finish despite the age of it.
You mention allowing it to make its own finish. I think if you are spraing it that might well work, probably would with a bit of practice! However, I am brushing it and it is still making a good (not great) surface, so, I will probably end up using, at the least, a cutting polish of some kind on it.
For information I am using a product from the DEFT range. I got what was available at the local paint store, it's not something I researched, just luck.

Regards, Allan.....
Only nuts eat squirrels.
Keep yer tools sharp! That way you can use more of your strength guiding them AWAY from your body rather than forcing the cut!!!
Bent
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:10 pm
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Re: Nitrocellulose

Post by Bent »

Allan NP. DEFT is a great brush-on lacquer in my books. I used that on my first steel and liked the results. It flowed out very nicely. So, yes, I think it is a great alternative when you don't have spray equipment.
http://benrom.com/
21 BenRom pedal steel guitars, a Nash 112 and a 1967 TOS Milling machine with many cutters making one hell of a mess on the floor.
Allan
Posts: 419
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:55 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Nitrocellulose

Post by Allan »

Blushing now...

I do have spraying equipment - I am probably just too lazy to use it/clean it after use.

Why am I confessing this?


Allan.....
Only nuts eat squirrels.
Keep yer tools sharp! That way you can use more of your strength guiding them AWAY from your body rather than forcing the cut!!!
rocks66ss
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:17 pm
Location: Prairie Village, Kansas

Re: Nitrocellulose

Post by rocks66ss »

I treated the lacquer as is if I were painting a car, spraying light coats with the last coat a little heavy on the thinner to make it lay flat. The beauty of working in this medium is if you make an imperfection I have been able to spray straight thinner and it melts the lacquer and when the thinner flashes off leaving the lacquer flat. I understand you dont have to do all the sanding, but I progressively block sanded to 2000. That's why I put aprox 20 coats on. The reason for doing that is the finish I obtained is like a sheet of glass and polished to perfection.

Overkill, probably, but it's fun to experiment. I have a steel, actually my first on I built on the bench and i'm tearing it apart and going to redo the body and and refinish, and refab some of the metal parts. as far as protective devices when I spay, i use on of the best respirators you can buy, and I spray in heavily ventilated area. I turned part of my shop in the basement into a paint booth and have positive air flow to the outside. I don't treat the Nitro any different than any other lacquer but I do take precautions as one should with any flammable medium.


Rocky
Bent
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Re: Nitrocellulose

Post by Bent »

Hi Rocky,
Since you got results like that I won't argue with your procedures. Twenty coats seem like a lot of work. I asked the expert specifically about spraying like I would a car coat upon continuous coat till you build up the shine. He said no. He said spray one wet coat. Let it set for one hour, then spray another wet coat etc and do this for no more than 6 coats. I should maybe say that the nitro I used was Instrument lacquer. If there are other types of nitro, then likely they will be treated a bit differently.
Sure sounds like you have experience. Are you a spray painter by trade? Have you finished several instruments? I would LOVE to see a pic of that steel!
http://benrom.com/
21 BenRom pedal steel guitars, a Nash 112 and a 1967 TOS Milling machine with many cutters making one hell of a mess on the floor.
rocks66ss
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:17 pm
Location: Prairie Village, Kansas

Re: Nitrocellulose

Post by rocks66ss »

No expert by any means. All by trial and error. I do use very good spray equipment. I have a Sata gun. Here are a couple of pictures, sorry for the quality, I had so much glare it was hard to get a picture that really shows the finish. I am an elevator mechanic by trade. I currently the purchasing agent/Parts Manager for the largest independent union elevator company in the midwest.

Image

Image

Image


Rocky
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