Hey Guys
As everyone is probably well aware, I have been on the forum here for a couple months,
trying to gain enough infomation to build a PSG. Many people have given much help!
However, without a acurate dwg for a changer, building a PSG is not possible. I know
that PSG manufacturers will not give me there dwgs. Also, after looking at patent dwgs
I find that every picture is off scale and there is nothing acurate to reference to. This
of course is done to prevent copying. People that have measurements are not willing
to share them! The only sure way is to have a changer from a guitar and measure it all up.
Then you could build guitars to your hearts content. I will for now put my dream of building
a PSG on the back burner,until I get a guitar to measure.
Many thanks to everyone that helped me out!
Wayne
build a PSG??
Re: build a PSG??
Wayne.... you don't need a guitar to measure, you need my book (new version is not quite finished) but I'm down to pickups so getting near the end.
I just mailed the first 72 pages off to a guy on Monday.
Cheers,
Mac
I just mailed the first 72 pages off to a guy on Monday.
Cheers,
Mac
Re: build a PSG??
Wayne tell me what you need and ill help you if i can . Russ
Re: build a PSG??
Wayne, I have offered you to come here to my shop so I can show you in person how to build a changer to your correct measurements. There is nothing tough about that and I really think you should take me up on my generous offer. But for some reason that only you know, you have chosen to ignore this offer. We live an hour and a half from each other.
So, frankly I don't know what else can be done.
So, frankly I don't know what else can be done.
http://benrom.com/
21 BenRom pedal steel guitars, a Nash 112 and a 1967 TOS Milling machine with many cutters making one hell of a mess on the floor.
21 BenRom pedal steel guitars, a Nash 112 and a 1967 TOS Milling machine with many cutters making one hell of a mess on the floor.
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richard37066
- Posts: 517
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:44 am
- Location: Gallatin, Tennessee, USA
Re: build a PSG??
Wayne -
I think that you're giving up much too easily, young fella. And I can call you "young fella" since I'm now 75 and still attempting to give life a little hell.
I've been fortunate, in my life, to have had several people take the time to teach me all manner of things. As a result, I'm at least well-versed in many things if not accomplished in more than a few. This accumulated knowledge and developed skills allows me to attempt the building of a pedal steel guitar when most men would have reached for the remote and a cold beer. Now, I may take my last breath just when I'm tuning the thing up for the first time but that is of little consequence. What is most important is that I'm not giving up for lack of expertise or knowledge. Bless the guys on this forum for aiding me in my quest.
Bent and I have become commiserating buddies here on the forum and I'm grateful for his guidance and suggestions these last few months. He has offered to assist you in getting beyond the changer problem. You should really take him up on the offer, visit him, and get on with the building of your instrument.
You might think of Bent as one of those people who took me by the hand at points in my life and smoothed the path towards fruition of a goal. Those kinds of people are priceless and one should not be bashful about "picken' their brains" since they're so willing to help those of us whose abilities are somewhat lacking.
Yes, it may sound presumptuous of me to be, in a sense, lecturing you but my comments are given in the best spirit and intent.
Call Bent. Get beyond the hurdle. Create your masterpiece and enjoy playin' the hell out of it.
Respectfully,
Richard
I think that you're giving up much too easily, young fella. And I can call you "young fella" since I'm now 75 and still attempting to give life a little hell.
I've been fortunate, in my life, to have had several people take the time to teach me all manner of things. As a result, I'm at least well-versed in many things if not accomplished in more than a few. This accumulated knowledge and developed skills allows me to attempt the building of a pedal steel guitar when most men would have reached for the remote and a cold beer. Now, I may take my last breath just when I'm tuning the thing up for the first time but that is of little consequence. What is most important is that I'm not giving up for lack of expertise or knowledge. Bless the guys on this forum for aiding me in my quest.
Bent and I have become commiserating buddies here on the forum and I'm grateful for his guidance and suggestions these last few months. He has offered to assist you in getting beyond the changer problem. You should really take him up on the offer, visit him, and get on with the building of your instrument.
You might think of Bent as one of those people who took me by the hand at points in my life and smoothed the path towards fruition of a goal. Those kinds of people are priceless and one should not be bashful about "picken' their brains" since they're so willing to help those of us whose abilities are somewhat lacking.
Yes, it may sound presumptuous of me to be, in a sense, lecturing you but my comments are given in the best spirit and intent.
Call Bent. Get beyond the hurdle. Create your masterpiece and enjoy playin' the hell out of it.
Respectfully,
Richard
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louckswayne
- Posts: 203
- Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:54 pm
Re: build a PSG??
Thanks to everyone who replied to my post. I will give a overview of what i had in mind
for my steel. 10 string E9th, 1 1/2 maple body(all 3/4" wood) 3 + 4 (with option of 5th vertical
knee lever later on) Some of you guys already said that probably a 2 raise/lower changer
would be OK but i thought a 3 raise/2 lower could be the best choice. I would like the end
plate hieght to be no more than 3 1/4" if posible. ( my legs are long from the knee down and
tend to be up high under the guitar) It would make sense to me(correct me if im wrong) to
start by designing the changer first and then with that i could design end plates and wood
cabinet. However i would not guess the dimensions of the changer fingers and end up with
the pivot point 1/2" to low or 1/4"to high or something else wrong! This is why i was asking
for a dwg. or pattern by witch to build a changer. I would shoot for a 3/4" wide fingers with
1/2" axle.
Sincerely
Wayne
for my steel. 10 string E9th, 1 1/2 maple body(all 3/4" wood) 3 + 4 (with option of 5th vertical
knee lever later on) Some of you guys already said that probably a 2 raise/lower changer
would be OK but i thought a 3 raise/2 lower could be the best choice. I would like the end
plate hieght to be no more than 3 1/4" if posible. ( my legs are long from the knee down and
tend to be up high under the guitar) It would make sense to me(correct me if im wrong) to
start by designing the changer first and then with that i could design end plates and wood
cabinet. However i would not guess the dimensions of the changer fingers and end up with
the pivot point 1/2" to low or 1/4"to high or something else wrong! This is why i was asking
for a dwg. or pattern by witch to build a changer. I would shoot for a 3/4" wide fingers with
1/2" axle.
Sincerely
Wayne
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louckswayne
- Posts: 203
- Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:54 pm
Re: build a PSG??
To Bent
I have a family member with health problems and i have not been able to go away from
home to far. However i would love to come to your shop sometime in the future and
discuss building the guitars. All the help you have already given me and those great
pictures that you post has been wonderful!
Thanks
Wayne
I have a family member with health problems and i have not been able to go away from
home to far. However i would love to come to your shop sometime in the future and
discuss building the guitars. All the help you have already given me and those great
pictures that you post has been wonderful!
Thanks
Wayne
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richard37066
- Posts: 517
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:44 am
- Location: Gallatin, Tennessee, USA
Re: build a PSG??
Wayne -
I'm proud of ya, son! Go get 'em!
As to your dimension dilemma. A changer total height in the neighborhood of 4 1/4" to 4 1/2" seems to be approximately the norm. Some moreso, some less. If you fix the bottom of the changer (return springs) at approximately the bottom of the cabinet then you can adjust things topside so that it all makes sense. The top of the changer finger establishes the string height. You can work down from there and fudge the numbers as regards string height from neck, thickness of neck and height of the body for example. String height on my instrument is 5/8" above the neck. There's nothing magical about this and it's been discussed before here on the forum.
My best suggestion: - Go to Wally-World (Walmart) and pick up a small package of cross-section graph paper. 1/4" squares should do it. Assume, for the moment, that the radius of the top of the changer finger is 3/8", 3/4" diameter. This may change so don't get excited about the absolute dimension. Draw a 3/4" circle. Measure down from the top of that circle, say, 4 1/4" or 4 1/2". That temporarily establishes the bottom of the cabinet. Now - if your heart is set upon a given dimension for the end plates, hence, the cabinet depth, measure up from that bottom line and draw a horizontal line. That's - temporarily - the top of the cabinet. Now - fill in a couple of very crude details (a 3/4" thick neck, 5/8" string height, changer axle diameter?) so that you know what you're seeing. Does everything fit? A picture is worth a thousand words and you're now well on your way toward visualizing what will take form as you begin building. Be sure to have a hefty eraser on hand as you're going to need it. Paper is cheap. If ya don't like what ya see then trash it and start over.
There's a lot of things which have been discussed here on the forum regarding dimensions, materials, etc.. Do your homework and try to dredge these things up from the archives. If you fail, just remember that there's a ton of guys here who will jump at the chance to assist you in whatever you're trying to do.
The absolute configuration of the changer, at this point, is immaterial. It will take shape as you firm up the gross details. Bent, for example, is building a changer whose dimensions and configuration, I assume, are fairly typical. When the time comes, just pick his brains and you'll have a design in short order.
The length of your leg comes into play only when you have to determine the length of the legs, themselves, and the pedal rods. That's a fair ways down the road so don't get stressed about such things.
I recall, not long ago, asking whether there is a specific order to designing these things or whether one's mind wanders to other aspects not related to the current task. I was assured that it's never too early to think about some things. Acting upon those thoughts can always wait until another day. I make copious notes whenever my mind wanders off into another section of the design such that I won't forget the thought(s).
It would appear that your attitude is adjusted to the extent that you're willing to beat this thing over the head with a framing hammer in order to get it done. That's very much in your favor and I believe that you'll stick your nose to the grindstone and get it done.
Forge ahead "young fella"! This designing stuff can be frustrating as all get out at times but just think of the joy in realizing the end result?
Once again, I respectfully submit these comments. In no way am I demeaning your intelligence or abilities but just throwing things up in the air for your perusal such that you'll get a semblance of direction and go from there.
Richard
I'm proud of ya, son! Go get 'em!
As to your dimension dilemma. A changer total height in the neighborhood of 4 1/4" to 4 1/2" seems to be approximately the norm. Some moreso, some less. If you fix the bottom of the changer (return springs) at approximately the bottom of the cabinet then you can adjust things topside so that it all makes sense. The top of the changer finger establishes the string height. You can work down from there and fudge the numbers as regards string height from neck, thickness of neck and height of the body for example. String height on my instrument is 5/8" above the neck. There's nothing magical about this and it's been discussed before here on the forum.
My best suggestion: - Go to Wally-World (Walmart) and pick up a small package of cross-section graph paper. 1/4" squares should do it. Assume, for the moment, that the radius of the top of the changer finger is 3/8", 3/4" diameter. This may change so don't get excited about the absolute dimension. Draw a 3/4" circle. Measure down from the top of that circle, say, 4 1/4" or 4 1/2". That temporarily establishes the bottom of the cabinet. Now - if your heart is set upon a given dimension for the end plates, hence, the cabinet depth, measure up from that bottom line and draw a horizontal line. That's - temporarily - the top of the cabinet. Now - fill in a couple of very crude details (a 3/4" thick neck, 5/8" string height, changer axle diameter?) so that you know what you're seeing. Does everything fit? A picture is worth a thousand words and you're now well on your way toward visualizing what will take form as you begin building. Be sure to have a hefty eraser on hand as you're going to need it. Paper is cheap. If ya don't like what ya see then trash it and start over.
There's a lot of things which have been discussed here on the forum regarding dimensions, materials, etc.. Do your homework and try to dredge these things up from the archives. If you fail, just remember that there's a ton of guys here who will jump at the chance to assist you in whatever you're trying to do.
The absolute configuration of the changer, at this point, is immaterial. It will take shape as you firm up the gross details. Bent, for example, is building a changer whose dimensions and configuration, I assume, are fairly typical. When the time comes, just pick his brains and you'll have a design in short order.
The length of your leg comes into play only when you have to determine the length of the legs, themselves, and the pedal rods. That's a fair ways down the road so don't get stressed about such things.
I recall, not long ago, asking whether there is a specific order to designing these things or whether one's mind wanders to other aspects not related to the current task. I was assured that it's never too early to think about some things. Acting upon those thoughts can always wait until another day. I make copious notes whenever my mind wanders off into another section of the design such that I won't forget the thought(s).
It would appear that your attitude is adjusted to the extent that you're willing to beat this thing over the head with a framing hammer in order to get it done. That's very much in your favor and I believe that you'll stick your nose to the grindstone and get it done.
Forge ahead "young fella"! This designing stuff can be frustrating as all get out at times but just think of the joy in realizing the end result?
Once again, I respectfully submit these comments. In no way am I demeaning your intelligence or abilities but just throwing things up in the air for your perusal such that you'll get a semblance of direction and go from there.
Richard
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Paul Lafountaine
- Posts: 332
- Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:06 am
- Location: Northern Ontario
Re: build a PSG??
Seeing how this is the general discussion area and this was mentioned in the thread, I just wanted to say My hat is off to Bent. I think that was very nice of him to offer Wayne the opportunity to visit with him and share his knowledge. Your one hell of a nice guy Bent. I sure hope that what ever the illness to Wayne's family member is clears up soon and he has the chance to visit Bent. Does it sound like I'm fishing for an invite. LOL
Paul
Paul
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richard37066
- Posts: 517
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:44 am
- Location: Gallatin, Tennessee, USA
Re: build a PSG??
Paul -
If I didn't live better than 1500 miles away from him, I'd be over at Bent's at least twice a week. Why, I'd even buy lunch for him!
Richard
If I didn't live better than 1500 miles away from him, I'd be over at Bent's at least twice a week. Why, I'd even buy lunch for him!
Richard