Casting - Home foundry

Tools, shop setup, jigs...
Bent
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Casting - Home foundry

Post by Bent »

A totally fascinating subject that deserves it's own thread.
There have been questions of late, how to go about foundry techniques, and a precious few have authoritative knowledge on the subject. I for one, would love to acquire more knowledge on this.

ShoBud asked some great questions recently. We need more of these questions.

Mike Farmer has helped me along the last 2 years or so. Mike you know a lot and I hope you chime in.
There are others on here who have also given us hints and advice, that I can't remember the names of in my haste to get this thread started...let yourself be known!
Ron (maxi) you leaned a lot during your apprenticeship, you made us aware of "sinks". Keep educating me and the rest of the gang.

As we all gather knowledge about this, be it a great youtube video, or trial and error/success, let us know.
Thanks!
http://benrom.com/
21 BenRom pedal steel guitars, a Nash 112 and a 1967 TOS Milling machine with many cutters making one hell of a mess on the floor.
richard37066
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Location: Gallatin, Tennessee, USA

Re: Casting - Home foundry

Post by richard37066 »

Bent -

Although I can't imagine myself casting any parts in the near future, I'm curious as to the relative costs - in time, labor and money - between casting a part and machining something out of a solid billet.

In some analyses, the "time factor" is mostly ignored. That is, your time is worth so much per hour spent and yet is often ignored or glossed over when making such comparisons. I must plead ignorance regarding this as it applies to the overall procedure when casting parts, but it seems that a horrendous amount of time, effort and money will be spent before one actually puts the pot on the stove and melts some aluminum.

Finishing the surfaces might well be a wash between the two.

Have you made such comparisons? A curious mind is curious.

Richard
Bent
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Re: Casting - Home foundry

Post by Bent »

Richard, Good questions - all of them.
I am no authority but am more than willing to give you my take...and the experts can correct me.

Time: say that I am set up with a home foundry - I believe I could set one up for say $300 +-
say that I have the knowledge so I don't waste time figuring how to do things.
Say I would be pouring keyheads. I would pour say 10 in one operation. With my molds made and enough flasks to handle all 10 in one pour, the actual pouring would take a half day. Set-up and machining might take me 2 full days.

Ok ..lets not gloss over, but allow me $30 an hour for my pay and shop overhead. I would spend 3 days on the whole thing and 3 days at 8 hours per would be 24 hours or $720 for 10 keyheads or $72.00 per keyhead. Reasonable keyheads indeed, if my estimate of 24 hours is in the ballpark.

I disagree with the assumption that the time to work keyheads from a pour vs from a billet is the same. I would say that that time would be cut in half at least.

OTOH..this is getting into a fabricator type of scenario where the person makes his living fully or partially from building steels.

The scenario I work by is: I am retired and enjoy this strictly as a hobby. I don't want no 8 hour days...I don't feel the need to sell a bunch of keyheads (or steel guitars). But I do love making them as a hobby and will keep doing so to the best of my ability. When I sell one, it feels nice to get the money back for the materials, plus a bit for my work. But $30 an hour? No.... My shop and overhead is here whether or not I make these things. I am here, still collecting my pension whether or not I make steels.

But your point is a good and valid one. As usual, I got way off subject but..that's what this forum is for, you either read my ramblings or you don't ! :lol: :roll:

Aside from all this, I have read that castings are better for sound and tone than extruded aluminum. There. I opened another potential can of worms :-)
http://benrom.com/
21 BenRom pedal steel guitars, a Nash 112 and a 1967 TOS Milling machine with many cutters making one hell of a mess on the floor.
Bent
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Re: Casting - Home foundry

Post by Bent »

Another consideration is the fact that your materials for pouring will cost you next to nothing. I would collect all scrap aluminum from making parts out of extruded. As an example, I have 4 heavy grocery bags full of shavings from this current project. Plus scrap cutoffs etc.
Some say aluminum poured from exuded isn't the best, as it is a bit gummy to work with (from myfordboy on Youtube)
Barring that, I would prowl the neighborhood on garbage day and collect scrap cast aluminum - bbqs for instance, or buy cast scrap from my local junk dealer.
http://benrom.com/
21 BenRom pedal steel guitars, a Nash 112 and a 1967 TOS Milling machine with many cutters making one hell of a mess on the floor.
richard37066
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Location: Gallatin, Tennessee, USA

Re: Casting - Home foundry

Post by richard37066 »

Bent -

I certainly do not disagree with anything that you've said. However, I'm under the impression that the other thread which broached this subject was slanted in the direction of folks who would create a one-off for their own personal use. That changes things dramatically since the time, materials, money and effort are expended in a single-use direction as opposed to a continual production of a given part.

I'm nit-picking here, but the $300 for the glue pot would buy me 5 hours of shop time in my hometown. Could you mill a keyhead in less than 5 hours of time? I think that you're getting my drift - my direction.

Seems like someone - like me - would be much better off just making an engineering drawing (which you'd have to do, anyway) and drop it off at my friendly machinists office and let him work his magic on the miller.

Having said all of that, I'm mindful of the fact that I have spent the time, money, etc, in making something just for the hell of it when I could have easily just bought the darned thing. Ya might call it personal accomplishment. We've all done it and the satisfaction gained is not measured in dollars.

Forgive me if I've gotten picky but I'm just narrowing the scope of this subject to zero in on the occasional or one-off piece to be crafted.

Richard
maxi19
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Re: Casting - Home foundry

Post by maxi19 »

Bent, Richard,

doing a casting for a one off is not (in my opinion) economically viable, the outlay, furnace, ladles, moulding materials (ie moulding sand, parting sand, mould dusting (plumbago used to be used), tooling, patterns, core boxes etc. If a production run of several dozen were envisaged and a market available you might break even.

Machining up castings is more 'hit and miss' than machining from 'bar stock' due to discrepancies and faults (ie blowholes, contaminated metals) in the castings, but on the positive side there would be a great deal of self satisfaction in having done it all yourself.

p.s. Don't try growing the wood from seed the finished article may never come to fruition. ;) ;) :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ron Mc
Bent
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Re: Casting - Home foundry

Post by Bent »

Richard I believe maxi addressed your concern. I agree with him. Casting is not for one-offs - I thought that part was clear..too much preparatory work etc etc. You're not picky - it's good to get all those concerns ironed out.
http://benrom.com/
21 BenRom pedal steel guitars, a Nash 112 and a 1967 TOS Milling machine with many cutters making one hell of a mess on the floor.
Farmer
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Location: Auburn, Indiana

Re: Casting - Home foundry

Post by Farmer »

Guys, one thing about it is if you have a piece you want to duplicate you can do that. If it is not a flat side piece, the you have to figure out how to make a holder for the piece you want to make. Bent, you remember some pictures I sent you that had a pedal, like a ShoBud but with a flat top. you have to make the holder so only half of your piece is showing. Then you get the other half when you turn your flask over, remove the holder and the pattern. On to something you want, have an idea for,but not a pattern, then you have to make one with all the angle reliefs that it needs so it releases from the sand without disturbing it. It is a good idea to oversize your pattern if you plan on machining it afterwords. On my old Sho-Bud the pedals, keyhead, pedal bar were just polished and painted black on the inside (pedalbar, keyhead)... I forget to check these other places to post.....but I will be back

Mike

Watch all those videos on U-Tube that you can before you jump in.
maxi19
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Re: Casting - Home foundry

Post by maxi19 »

These threads are becoming interesting with so much input from different people :D
shobudmaverick
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Re: Casting - Home foundry

Post by shobudmaverick »

I agree that this topic needs more attention because so many people show interest in it but there is somewhat of a lack of information.One of the main reasons I want to know more about it is in case I ever do get into building a pedal steel I would want to cast the pedal board for one and probalbly the endplates and keyheads as well.I have looked at a lot of sources for aluminum and its some expensive stuff so If you can go and find some scrap and cast your parts I think you could save quite a bit of money.
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