Volume and tone control/

Pickups, Diy Electronics, Stompboxes, Guitar wiring...
Paul Higgins
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:35 pm

Re: Volume and tone control/

Post by Paul Higgins »

Hello
I sorry guys but I missed the above posts prob too wrapped up with getting it done..
just noticed them as I wanted to check the wireing..
Thank you allan as always such a comperhencive reply I always learn a lot from them,
Michaelm and Bobby sorry for not replying I understand where you are comming from it like a mine field...
I came back to this point as altho all working..( ill try and explain as I can ) the volume seems ok....plenty there..
The tone
The old amp Im useing at the mo hasent hardly got what I call any tone...
my guitar tone dosent seem to have a lot of room in it..as only the first little bit of turn seems to do anything..and to me it seems to work backwards..as with it turned all the way to the left gives me full tone..( as I call it and a little turn to the right seems to turn the trebble up so to speak.. perhaps I have the values wrong or wired wrong..( with me anything is possible )

I see where you are comming from as values are not what they are said to be..

The volume I had 470k log and 470k lin for tone with well it says on it bc 220nk250
I asked for 022 mf cap ....I took it that the feller in the shop gave me the right one.....

I know at the mo I am not expecting a miracle with the sound as the amp is very old till I get a new one but there is only so much one can aford at one time...
But it would be nice to know what is happening with the tone I have now..again sorry I dident reply Regards Paul
Allan
Posts: 419
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:55 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Volume and tone control/

Post by Allan »

Hi Paul.
First thing, when you say 'to the right' I guess you are saying clockwise. Is that right? Clockwise should give you more treble. If that is what you are getting then things are OK in that department. Second, the capacitor you need is .022micro Farads with a humbucker. That is POINT zero two two. Did you get the right one?
Now, here is the fun part, some disciplines will take mF to mean micro Farads while others insist that micro Farads should be expressed as uF. I was taught that milli Farads should be expressed as MF and micro Farads as mF. It seems that most references today now use mF for milli Farads and uF for micro Farads. What you want is a .022 micro Farad capacitor. I should have spelled that out for you from the beginning I guess. However, it gets more complex. (if you let it) There is more than one published 'standard' for marking the value on capacitors and they actually clash with each other in some aspects. I checked that marking on your cap and got two completely different values from different manufacturers. What I think I am trying to say is, I guess you need to trust the guy in the store! What I would do is go back to Maplin, or wherever you got the cap, and ask for a .022 micro Farad capacitor. You should be looking at pennies for that really. If you want to, you could try a few values to see if you can match your amplifier in a way that might suit you better. If you do, get smaller values. You could try 4700pico Farads and 6800pico Farads. Tone controls in general are very much a matter of personal taste.
Now, in a departure from tradition, I am NOT going to try to explain the theory of the above statements. The subject of inductive and capacitive reactance (2pi*f*l and 1/(2pi*f*c)) is way too complex to be gone into here. Besides, not many of us know the inductance of the pickup we have anyhow!!! So, sorry if I confused you with my milli/micro nomenclature, just try a .022micro Farad if you don't want to mess around. Or, if you like, the lower values may give you what you are after. The lower values will possibly work better with an older amplifier. (what make is the amp?)

Hope this makes some kind of sense to you.

Regards, Allan.....
Only nuts eat squirrels.
Keep yer tools sharp! That way you can use more of your strength guiding them AWAY from your body rather than forcing the cut!!!
Paul Higgins
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:35 pm

Re: Volume and tone control/

Post by Paul Higgins »

Hello Alllan
Thank you Yes I do mean clockwise guess its my English / Welsh way explaining things..Clockwise gives me more Treble.. and a slight turn clockwise brings full treble. as you say prob the cap..Ill go to maplins and try a few values...

The conversation in maplins went ...Me with a bit of paper man can I help you.. yes please, do you stock these, out came book he said I only have 470k for pots I said they should be ok, I said sorry I dont realy know much about them, Ive was given the values on email...MAN said nore do I ..so that is why I might question what I came home with...I know the differance between a little red thing and a bag of chips..So I eat the chips and put the little red thing on the pot....

the amp is Hohner panther it has volume, master, bass treble , overdrive , middle, and to be honest none of the controls do a lot..

But we will get there..and get a decent one soon...
Again something learned... I will let you know the outcome !
Regards Paul
User avatar
rbrat
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:30 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: Volume and tone control/

Post by rbrat »

Paul,
I just finished my first 6 string lap top last week . I too have a humbucker pick-up with volume and tone controls. I used Fender's TBX tone control pot. (see attached link) It works like a 3 way switch with a notch in the center that is like neutral with no tone adjustment, counter clockwise 5-0 increases bass, clockwise 5-10 increases treble. I also just bought a new Dunlop volume pedal and hardly touch the steel volume now. But if you don't have a volume pedal volume control on the instrument is convenient.
Happy Steelin,

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/I ... art_1.aspx
Rusty

__________________________________________

every steel can teach you something, if you only look.
bluesteel
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:58 am

Re: Volume and tone control/

Post by bluesteel »

Allan says:

I was taught that milli Farads should be expressed as MF and micro Farads as mF. It seems that most references today now use mF for milli Farads and uF

Well, technically, there's no choice in it. Lower case "m" means "milli" or "one thousandth", and upper case "M" means Mega, or "times one million". This is not negotiable in electronics. We don't easily have access to the Greek "omicron" character for "micro" or "one millionth" so we use "u" for the "micro" character with the long tail downwards to the left. It's close enough. These conventions have been established for over 50 years. The capacitor values you have seen here (0.047 or 0.022 uF) can also be expressed as 47 nF or 22 nF - "nano" meaning "divide by one thousand million".

It might be worth checking that tone control track for continuity with an ohm-meter from end to end, and from centre to each end to monitor how the resistance changes as the control is rotated. If the pot has been wired up wrong it can have some interesting effects as well.

There are many "correct" ways to wire a tone pot but they all share this thing in common:

1. the signal to the tone pot goes from the signal path (which itself comes from the volume slider) through the cap, through some resistance, and then to ground. The more resistance, the less the high frequencies get bled off to ground, so the "brighter" it sounds.

2. at maximum anti-clockwise rotation there has to be minimum resistance in series with the pot to ground. As you rotate the pot clockwise, so you bring in more resistance.

3. at max clockwise, there is maximum resistance in series with the signal to ground.

Clear as mud!

Will C
Post Reply