pickup hum...

[Bent]

That's right, my single coils have that annoying hum. In keeping with advice here and elsewhere I have done the following to try and combat hum: I got hold of some copper foil and wrapped this around the coil on top of the tape. No better.
In addition, I made a 'box' type of shield with half inch walls and set the PUP in that and grounded it well. Hardly better.
I brought the pup and amp inside from the shop and out of range of elec motors, fluorescent lights etc. No better than before.
By the way, when I turn the pup 90 degrees from level (magnets facing out instead of up) the pup becomes 75% quieter. Afraid I'd look dumb trying to play the steel sideways haha

What next? Don't tell me to make myself a humbucker. I wanted to continue trying for a cleaner sound from the single coil.

[Steve W]

Did you use shielded hook up wire? Did you ground the copper tape. BTW the copper tape shouldn't touch itself or it will creat some kind of extra coil or eddy currents or something like that, basically it's negative. Cover the first part of the copper tape with electric tape so that when you lap over it they don't connect. Make sure the copper tape is grounded. If you didn't use shielded wire you can twist the wires like a phone line.
I've heard that some kind of caulking over the solder points of the guitar can help.

Could it be a bad ground or a bad solder somewhere? Is the changer gounded?

Try diffent cables and amps.

I've also read that you can run a thin piece of cooper tape over the bottom of the magnets and then ground that. I don't know what ground loops are but I think you can creat problems by not sending everything to the same ground and that can cause hum. I guess I should go learn something about that.

[Allan]

Don't know what you have tried already Bent so excuse me if this looks like an egg sucking class.

First off, have you actually installed the pickup in your guitar or just put it in a position where you can test it? It is important that the changer and all of the metal is grounded. (to the screen on the lead that goes to the amp)
If possible, use screened hookup wire from the pickup. The outside of the coil goes to the center of the screened wire and the inside end to the screen.
All of the grounds (screens from the PU and to the output socket and the outside of the control pots) should go to a common point. This would generally be the back of the volume pot. The ground wire from the metal work (the changer) should also go to that same point. This will reduce hum loops. (also known as ground loops)
Check all the solder joints. A gap somewhere in the ground connections is the most common cause of hum with everything else being OK. I well remember re-wiring a bass guitar of mine when I put new PU's in it. I must have done that thing 5 or 6 times and it hummed like someone who just didn't know the words. Turned out that the screen had come off one end of the jack on the lead. If I could have run fast enough I would have gone round the back and kicked my own butt up to my neck for that one.
I know that most of this is just a re-telling of what Steve said but I just put it all down to keep my thoughts in line.

Good luck with it and keep us up to date with how it is going.

Regards, Allan.....

[Bent]

Ok guys, you're doing good so far. Steve, I will open the pup and re-do the copper foil around the coil - it is touching on the overlap. I will also ground it; didn't do that, just the copper "box" that the pup sits in is grounded.
The changer is grounded I guess, from the way it sits on the other metal that in turn gets grounding from the ground on the jack socket.
Do you mean to run a wire from changer to ground on socket?
No bad solders.
The wire leads are not screened, just twisted.

Allan, the pup is in the guitar now. However, I did some testing of it before installation. Get this: I could hold the pup in my hand in upright position( Top pointing up) It then hummed like mad. Then I turned it 90 deg (top pointing sideways) and nearly all the hum stopped. I tried it in the amp in the house, to get it out of the shop environment with its motors, and a bad ballast in a fluorescent light. NO difference. Same thing happened again..I turned it sideways and bam, the hum as good as stopped.
I see I am starting to repeat myself. I'll go to bed, I must have PWS. (Pickup Winding Syndrome)

[Georg]

Bad case of SCPWS (Single Coil PU Winding Syndrome)
...and now you've wound two identical PUs that behave the same way both on and off the steel.

Maybe now you understand why Single Coil PUs tend to work better (pick up less hum) on regular guitars than on PSGs. Regular guitars are usually played with the PU pointing sideways - with the coil more or less neutrally balanced in the normal electromagnetic field, while a PSG (usually) have the PU pointing towards heaven and earth - with the coil standing in its most sensitive angle relative to the normal electromagnetic field. Even if you turned off all electricity in a radius of a mile, there would still be a very small hum-field left.

Anyway, AFAICS the basic grounding was good in your BenRom PSG, with all ground wires going to a common point - ground on the connection jack (no pot in a PSG). Apart from the almost negligible weakness that the jack is grounded at a fixed point (hole) in the PSGs endplate - I use a plastic jack-connector so I can ground the endplate/frame with a wire anywhere in my PSG, I didn't see anything wrong with your ground and signal wirings in the BenRom.

What the others have written sounds good, so I won't repeat that. Thus, I can't provide any real advices on how to improve things until I'm back in Norway and get the PU I took with me hooked up in my workshop, where I can perform some thorough shielding and hum-counteracting tests on it. That'll be some time next month.
Until then: keep that SCPWS of yours under control as best you can, or you'll end up seeing, and hearing, "hum-ghosts" everywhere

[Bent]

Actually I think you are serious about the pickup being oriented the "wrong" way on a steel as opposed to a elec guitar. In any event I will take that one seriously and try my darnedest to come up with a way to "fool" the magnets into believing that they are actually sideways.
False magnetic field? electrical currents surrounding the pickup? Does it sound like I have SCPWS yet??

No, seriously, there is a solution for everything; like, you can fool a 3 phase motor into believing it is still a 3 phase although you are running it on 2 phases via a phase converter...so why not fooling a set of magnets in some way?

In the meantime I will study the pup you brought to my attention on the european forum http://chanos-isgf.org/ESGForum/ Click on Pedal steel and the topic Single coils hummmmmm

[Georg]

I'm serious alright, but don't expect the hum-causing electromagnetic field(s) to have the same orientation(s) in all locations. Thus, it isn't a "fix all problems in all situations" solution for single coil PUs. Better not mix in any thoughts about one and three phased motors either, as that's a different subject entirely.

Sure you can change the orientation of PU magnets/coils. A 90 degree angle at each end of the magnet using suitable pieces/plates of iron, will in effect give the magnets a "Z" shape. The coil can then be oriented sideways with the magnets field orientation being "up/down. "

Don't ask me how well suited such a "Z" oriented PU will be for picking up string vibrations though, as I haven't tried and am in no position to do extensive research right now (being here at the Steel Guitar Jamboree in Dallas).
Besides: I will personally go for low-impedance humbuckers followed by passive or active step-up stages, over traditionally wound single or dual coil PUs, any day. I will only look into matters surrounding traditionally wound PUs because some musicians out here actually like them (for whatever reason).

Concert starts in 25 minutes, so it's time to get busy at my end. Till later...

[Allan]

...Single coils hummmmmm

I guess you are looking at the 'split coil' topic? Yeah, I have thoght about that as an answer. One of my bass guitars has a 'P' bass pickup that is made that way. It is way quieter than the 'J' bass pickups. I prefer the 'J' bass as an instrument though so I try to live with the hum. However, back to the topic. That looks like a very promising approach. The other approach might be to use two single coils in anti-phase. That was how it was done in a Fender Stringmaster console non-pedal. Those things had a great sound. Way powerful to my mind but that is what a volume control is for .

Allan.....

[SlideGuy123]

Sorry I'm late to this party -- I actually joined this forum to reply! I had exactly the same problem as Bent -- the hum that wouldn't go away no matter what. Shielding, different rooms, different orientations... nothing worked, except flipping up the lap steel like a standard guitar. Then it was dead quiet. I loved the pickup (a Vintage Vibe Strat-sized blade), but couldn't deal with the hum, which was audible even when I was playing. A humbucker was the most direct solution, as I didn't want to get into trying a dummy coil.

My main instrument is now something that was built for me (I haven't got up the nerve to attempt one yet, but that's why I started visiting the forum) and uses a (wait for it) split coil pickup. Very strong, clear tone, no hum.

Peter

[Bent]

Peter welcome, Yeah those singles are nasty huh? I am in the process of TRYING to build a split coil now. Gave up on the regular singles for now until I hear from Georg when he returns to Norway and their 50 cycle electricity. Betcha a dollar to a donut that it will be nice and quiet there

Those split coils are a pain to make especially for a novice. Of course you cant wind them the conventional way so I am mounting the magnets in a thin wooden holder and using wooden plates for the fake tops and bottoms. When ready I have to try and take the wood off carefully and replace with the plastic.
What other way is there unless you want to go for 2 separate pieces of 5 and 5?
I am referring to this one: http://chanos-isgf.org/ESGForum/ scroll halfway down the page