Harmony H601. Help with the wiring.

Pickups, Diy Electronics, Stompboxes, Guitar wiring...
Tenderness46
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:39 pm

Harmony H601. Help with the wiring.

Post by Tenderness46 »

Hi, everyone. I just bought on eBay a Harmony lap steel guitar that, according to a Harmony database I found on google, is a '72 or '73 H601, given its bridge cover plate. I've seen that most people call those H1, although again in that database they say the H1 has a different bridge cover.

Whatever, it was supposed to sound fine as it was, if we were to believe the listing, but it's EXTREMELY quiet, makes electronic buzzing noises that come and go and the sound is VERY trebly, even with the tone control of a VOX Mini3 amp turned all the way down. The guitar tone control doesn't work, but that was mentioned in the description.

If it is necessary in the end, I'm ready to change whatever is required, wire, capacitor, pots or even the DeArmond 'Hershey Bar' pickup, but I would much prefer to keep it as original as possible. Obviously someone has been fiddling about with the wiring, because you can see that some of the connections are more recent than the others, and they even tried to close the control cavity with the volume pot twisted a few degrees, so it didn't fit, and so they took away some wood to enlarge the cavity.

I am determined to keep the baby and try to make it work all right. First, and since I know that someone has soldered something in the wiring, I doubt that the actual wiring is correct, and I would like to check that before I go on to start replacing parts. On the other hand, the connections are quite neatly made, so that makes me think that whoever did it knew what they were doing. I had a wiring diagram for a lap steel guitar with one pickup and a volume and a tone control and this guitar is wired differently. But I have had a look on the internet and seen that different guitars are wired in different ways. Can anyone out there send me the wiring diagram for THIS guitar? I have a good amount of diagrams for others, but I didn't find one for this.

Apart from being quiet, the tone control works more like a volume control; at minimum you hardly hear the guitar at all. As for how quiet it is, plugged into the VOX Mini3 amp, with both the gain and volume at full, you just get a moderate volume. With any other guitar I have, using that setting for five minutes would cause my neighbours to be banging at my door.

Thanks everyone in advance.


Alberto
Attachments
Harmony H601.jpg
Harmony H601.jpg (191.76 KiB) Viewed 10584 times
Tenderness46
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:39 pm

Re: Harmony H601. Help with the wiring.

Post by Tenderness46 »

OK. three days after my last post, after 13 views and no replies, I can imagine that the original wiring diagram for the Harmony H601 or H1 is somewhat hard to find and not many have it. I see that it's not a very rare guitar though, and at the same time as mine, another two were for sale on eBay, those in very good condition, with original case and offered as Buy It Now at not cheap prices, instead of up for bids. I would expect someone to have one of those guitars and be willing to draw a wiring diagram copied from the guitar itself.

Anyway, if that's not the case, I have wiring diagrams I have copied from the internet and I have noticed that different guitars are wired differently. Being an absolute ignorant about electronics, I imagined that guitars with just one pickup, one volume and one tone would be all wired the same, or maybe in one of two possible ways or similar. I see that there are more possible ways and again, being an ignorant about electronics, I wonder if any of those ways would work for any guitar and if the results would be the same. I have crosschecked my guitar wiring with a few others I printed of another Harmony model, a couple of Magnatones and so on, and there's no other quite the same as mine, so I wonder if the reason for the malfunction is that someone altered the wiring and did it in a wrong way or else the wire, one or both pots, the capacitor or the pickup maybe wrong. The reason why I would like to have the original wiring is, if my guitar wiring is wrong, I would first try and wire it as it was meant to be, before I start replacing parts. Of course it would be easier and faster to simply start changing things one by one until it works all right, but being a vintage guitar, I would really prefer to keep it as original as possible, as long as it does a good job.

If I can't find the original wiring, can anyone out there please tell me if any of those wiring diagrams I have would work for my guitar and if the results would be the same? Any info about that, or even any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks everyone for your help in advance.
Paul Lafountaine
Posts: 332
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:06 am
Location: Northern Ontario

Re: Harmony H601. Help with the wiring.

Post by Paul Lafountaine »

Alberto,

Check Google Patents. You may find it there if you haven't tried that yet. Good Luck

Paul
Tenderness46
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:39 pm

Re: Harmony H601. Help with the wiring.

Post by Tenderness46 »

Thanks very much, Paul! No, I hadn't tried it, because I didn't even know it existed. I'll have a look at it now.
bluesteel
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:58 am

Re: Harmony H601. Help with the wiring.

Post by bluesteel »

Alberto, if you can post a decent photo of the electronics I can maybe help you with some suggestions.

Will
Tenderness46
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:39 pm

Re: Harmony H601. Help with the wiring.

Post by Tenderness46 »

Apparently it's not easy to find the original schematics for this guitar. I couldn't find it on google patents. As for a picture of the electronics, I'll ask my son to take it tomorrow and post it, but I doubt that it will help, because it's difficult to see how the connections are made, unless in a really close look. Maybe this drawing I made will help more. This is the way the guitar is wired now.
Attachments
My Harmony H601 wiring diagram.jpg
My Harmony H601 wiring diagram.jpg (41.89 KiB) Viewed 10555 times
Last edited by Tenderness46 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paul Lafountaine
Posts: 332
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:06 am
Location: Northern Ontario

Re: Harmony H601. Help with the wiring.

Post by Paul Lafountaine »

Something does not look right to me about your drawing. First thing I would do is wire the pickup directly to the jack input, plug in the guitar to the amp and make sure the pickup is working. Use the tone and volume control on the amp to test it out. If the pick up checks out and works O.K., I would buy 2 new pots and a cap of the same rating and rewire based on a diagram such as this one. Hope this helped.

Paul
Attachments
vol-tone-pkup-jk.jpg
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Tenderness46
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:39 pm

Re: Harmony H601. Help with the wiring.

Post by Tenderness46 »

That's a great idea, Paul. I never thought of connecting the pickup straight to the jack. Thank you very much!
Paul Lafountaine
Posts: 332
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:06 am
Location: Northern Ontario

Re: Harmony H601. Help with the wiring.

Post by Paul Lafountaine »

Let us know how that works out for you. The process of elimination can tell a lot.

Paul
Tenderness46
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:39 pm

Re: Harmony H601. Help with the wiring.

Post by Tenderness46 »

Paul Lafountaine wrote:Let us know how that works out for you. The process of elimination can tell a lot.

Paul
Hello, Paul. I did as you said, connected the pickup straight to the jack and guess what! It works! It's a tad quieter than a cheap Artisan EA-1 I've also got, but on the other hand in the EA-1 I had brought the pickup closer to the strings. In a different forum, someone had suggested measuring the disconnected pickup so I did. I bought a really cheap multimeter at a Chinese shop and set to x1K, the needle went up only to 0'8 K, so it would be 800, while set to x100, it gave 2, that is 200, so it's not a very precise measuring device. Still, I suspected something wrong with the pickup after that measurement and I had a pleasant surprise when I connected it to the jack. I got a nice full sound, instead of the awful trebly one I had before, also much louder. If I follow the suggestion I've read at different sites for this kind of guitar and make a plastic base for the pickup to bring it closer to the strings, the sound will be perfect.

As for the rest of the circuit, I had read somewhere that Harmony used 50K pots for the DeArmond Hershey Bar pickup, and measuring both pots, at full they gave no resistance and at minimum they gave cleanly 50K, with intermediate readings in between. I also checked the two wires that are there, other than the pickup wires, and both showed no issues. I had no means to check the capacitor. I thought that probably the capacitor was wrong, as the seller himself had suggested in his listing.

Also, when I started using the soldering iron to disconnect things, I discovered that the diagram I had made was wrong, since the little wire that I had drawn going from the center terminal in the volume pot to the terminal that goes to the casing in the tone pot was actually not in the center terminal of the volume pot, but in the one that goes to the casing in that pot as well, so it seemed to make more sense than my first assumption.

In case there had been any false contacts in the circuit when the guitar came to me, I resoldered all the components the way they were before I touched it, and got the same results, that is no tone control and really low volume. Next I replaced the original capacitor with one I had somewhere around. I don't know about the value of any of them really, because I'm a total ignorant about electronics. The volume continued to be low but the tone control then worked as such, so probably the original capacitor is not working properly.

I have decided to connect the pickup again straight to the jack provisionally, so I can start using the guitar without any internal controls, and look for replacement parts. In case it means something to someone, in both pots you can read W7189, and also 1376452. In the capacitor you can read 134, below there is JZ, or .1Z, or .12, and below 10V.

Again thanks, Paul, for your concern and your valuable suggestions.
Last edited by Tenderness46 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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